Viewing a response to: @haphazard-hstead/re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t021332446z
We are not seeking to do this, and the main beneficiaries of disabling self voting will be minnows, who will then instead be able to use their votes as part of their engagement strategy. Self-Circle-Jerk takes a far more advanced bot than we have made at this point. But it's a start. I agree that getting paid to promote yourself is wrong! That's the whole point!
author | elfspice |
---|---|
permlink | re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t040341001z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 04:03:42 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 04:05:27 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
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post_id | 7,599,894 |
net_rshares | 0 |
Lol...bots bots bots. Will u care about how unreasonable this is? Bots armies of fucking bots...and u guys are attacking self voting. What a waste of time.
author | fuzzyvest |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t111137278z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 11:11:39 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 11:11:39 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% | ||
randomwhale | 0 | 600,424,786 | 100% | ||
haji | 0 | 0 | 100% |
You have a solution for bots? What is it exactly? Let's focus on your solution since you think mine is not going to work.
author | elfspice |
---|---|
permlink | re-fuzzyvest-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t141146634z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 14:11:51 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 14:11:51 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
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voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% |
The solution is increasing curation incentive with a hard fork. It's as simple as that. The exact implementation of the change isn't as easy because of multi-accounting though.
author | calamus056 |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-fuzzyvest-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170709t090407481z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-09 09:04:15 |
last_update | 2017-07-09 09:04:15 |
depth | 5 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
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personz | 0 | 7,527,789,061 | 12% | ||
elfspice | 0 | 4,775,324,187 | 10% |
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Steemit is such a complex ecosystem now that prediction of consequences seems less practical than testing and adjusting. It would be nice to see some analyses afterwards showing whether the planned effects are actually occurring. I appreciate all the experimentation that goes on here!
author | haphazard-hstead |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t042849681z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 04:28:48 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 04:28:48 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
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l0k1 | 0 | 2,610,786,399 | 6% | ||
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% |
The 4th member of the Co-Operative, @rycharde, is a mathematician who does a lot of work on Game Theory, and there is in fact models you can create that give pretty clear predictions of how humans will play with new things. He has friends in the field who can quickly build a simulation based on a series of variables that is pretty accurate at predicting it. Basically, it just models the process of people learning how to exploit the system. From this you can in fact judge the effect, before implementation, to a pretty large degree. I was absolutely ecstatic when he showed up to talk about what his angle was. This gives our development process some really good evidence to justify changes. He also happens to practically share my own theories about gravity and biology as well.
author | elfspice |
---|---|
permlink | re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t052812920z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"users":["rycharde"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 05:28:15 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 05:28:15 |
depth | 4 |
children | 13 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 05:28:15 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
markopaasila | 0 | 8,438,958,721 | 100% | ||
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% | ||
rycharde | 0 | 1,850,693,876 | 20% |
Then ur mathmetician buddy missed the ball completely. I made whaleshares to help whales distribute power away from themselves in a free market (not use of force as proclaimed here) to help end the rule of upvote bots. Why the hell u arent focused on this...blows my mind.
author | fuzzyvest |
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permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t111428372z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 11:14:30 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 11:14:30 |
depth | 5 |
children | 2 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 11:14:30 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% | ||
randomwhale | 0 | 575,143,743 | 100% | ||
haji | 0 | 0 | 100% |
Thanks for that explanation! That's pretty interesting! I'm curious about what the input and output variables are. Was the impact of self-upvoting considered, but then rejected for the current system implementation? Or was that a surprise? Or was it seen as a possibility with low enough probability that it wasn't worth bothering with, until evidence accumulated? So interesting! Now I really want to see a comparison of the projected and actual impacts, knowing there's game theory model behind your design decisions.
author | haphazard-hstead |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t065132171z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 06:51:30 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 06:51:30 |
depth | 5 |
children | 4 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 06:51:30 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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post_id | 7,611,859 |
net_rshares | 5,939,334,241 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
l0k1 | 0 | 5,939,334,241 | 14% |
I followed you just in case you decide to write about gravity :-)
author | markopaasila |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t061145031z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 06:11:45 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 06:11:45 |
depth | 5 |
children | 4 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 06:11:45 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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net_rshares | 5,939,334,241 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
l0k1 | 0 | 5,939,334,241 | 14% |
*"I agree that getting paid to promote yourself is wrong! That's the whole point!"* Why? You do realize where the value of Steem comes from, right? People investing money into it? I'm confused, do you think it's difficult to create a second account and send Steem there to vote for yourself? There is no barrier of technical knowledge here.
author | lexiconical |
---|---|
permlink | re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t042900689z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 04:29:12 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 04:35:33 |
depth | 3 |
children | 5 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 04:29:12 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
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curator_payout_value | 0.236 HBD |
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promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 342 |
author_reputation | 183,198,168,434,738 |
root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 7,601,706 |
net_rshares | 205,363,347,303 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
fuzzyvest | 0 | 184,429,317,586 | 1% | ||
edb | 0 | 12,912,064,322 | 50% | ||
personz | 0 | 8,021,965,395 | 10% |
100% Congrats...u just walked into the vipers den and said "i smell alot like chicken...whats the problem?" Lol...
author | fuzzyvest |
---|---|
permlink | re-lexiconical-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t111223497z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 11:12:27 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 11:12:45 |
depth | 4 |
children | 1 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 7,630,934 |
net_rshares | 10,894,752,461 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% | ||
lexiconical | 0 | 9,579,420,932 | 1% | ||
randomwhale | 0 | 587,784,264 | 100% | ||
haji | 0 | 0 | 100% |
Ah, well, one is giving me civil replies with interesting discussion. We'll ignore the guy that muted me after he made a mistake with his own argument and admitted it.
author | lexiconical |
---|---|
permlink | re-fuzzyvest-re-lexiconical-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t151323103z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 15:13:36 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 15:13:36 |
depth | 5 |
children | 0 |
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root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 7,653,396 |
net_rshares | 727,547,265 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
ackza | 0 | 727,547,265 | 5% |
No but it does take more effort. Minimally more I'll grant you, but more. It is friction and the interface is not designed to work for that use case. From reading your comments it's clear that you think this is not a solvable problem. But is that the only reason you oppose this, because you think it cannot be done? Or do you agree with self voting in some fundamental way? I'm curious.
author | personz |
---|---|
permlink | re-lexiconical-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t104626182z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 10:46:27 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 10:46:27 |
depth | 4 |
children | 2 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 10:46:27 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.166 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.054 HBD |
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promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 388 |
author_reputation | 42,452,361,038,560 |
root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
max_accepted_payout | 1,000,000.000 HBD |
percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 7,628,864 |
net_rshares | 47,897,104,661 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
lexiconical | 0 | 47,897,104,661 | 5% |
To be honest, I'm torn. I agree that putting large amounts of money into the ecosystem should reward you with stake. I further agree with Sean-King's logic that a Steem Power that didn't let you vote for yourself would be worth much less than one who does. I'd guess as much as half or more. It's hard to get away from what the results of that might be for everyone. My main objection is indeed that this will not stop the issue. It's like trying to create a complicated system to ban trolls on Reddit. They'll just make another account in 3 seconds. I feel like you will only punish the "dumbest abusers" and all the sly ones will simply get an even larger ratio of the haul. But, another aspect to why I object to this issue is that I think there is much more severe (and clear cut) rewards abuse happening in Trending which is literally locking us all out of the best spots on the platform. I posted about it, but nobody seems to care: https://steemit.com/curation/@lexiconical/exposing-advertiser-circle-jerks-in-trending-reward-pool-rape-and-bookingteam-com I mean, take a look at the business tag in trending. It's all BookingTeam.com junkmail, with the same crew of auto-upvoters. I feel like the Sheriff of Nottingham Forest chasing Robin Hood even worrying about self-upvoters. At least they paid in and gave the token value. Incidentally, I have my own biases and I also want to retain the ability to self-vote my content, given I have put nearly $50,000 into Steem. PS - Thanks for not just muting me as your compatriot did, btw. The reality is we all want the same thing - the rewards pool going to reward actual content creators. Our disagreement is about regulation and motivation, not intent.
author | lexiconical |
---|---|
permlink | re-personz-re-lexiconical-re-elfspice-re-haphazard-hstead-re-personz-self-voting-will-now-not-be-default-steemit-com-behaviour-20170707t151129340z |
category | steemdev |
json_metadata | {"tags":["steemdev"],"links":["https://steemit.com/curation/@lexiconical/exposing-advertiser-circle-jerks-in-trending-reward-pool-rape-and-bookingteam-com"],"app":"steemit/0.1"} |
created | 2017-07-07 15:11:42 |
last_update | 2017-07-07 15:14:45 |
depth | 5 |
children | 1 |
last_payout | 2017-07-14 15:11:42 |
cashout_time | 1969-12-31 23:59:59 |
total_payout_value | 0.141 HBD |
curator_payout_value | 0.046 HBD |
pending_payout_value | 0.000 HBD |
promoted | 0.000 HBD |
body_length | 1,714 |
author_reputation | 183,198,168,434,738 |
root_title | "Self voting will now NOT be default steemit.com behaviour" |
beneficiaries | [] |
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percent_hbd | 10,000 |
post_id | 7,653,196 |
net_rshares | 42,249,017,749 |
author_curate_reward | "" |
voter | weight | wgt% | rshares | pct | time |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
personz | 0 | 42,249,017,749 | 56% |