So much talk about it, and is all crap talk... Self-Upvote option should not even be possible, should  not exist... It's like HI5ing yourself, or like jerking off and calling a FK...
Same with Bots, all kind of explanations and reasoning while is plain simple bribery.. 
but what do I know...

The last part reminded me of when i was a kid and the monkeys lured my older brother over by the monkey cage, it then reached through the bars and bitch slapped him. i still laugh about it today and never miss the opportunity to bring up the time he got slapped by a monkey. Oh, good times.

>They are not wasting all of their SBD's to buy more votes, they trade them for more steem to add more Steem power so they have a bigger vote

>That is called smarter than you

Is it smarter though? 


if you have 10SBD - you can put it into a bot, get roughly $10 worth of SBD back as well as $10 worth of SP. 

if you put that 10SBD straight into SP you'll get around 12SP...

so how much does that extra 2SP increase your vote power? by 0.01 cents? 

how long will it take to make up that difference in the fact that you could have had 10SBD sitting there for a 0.01 cent lower vote value? 

I'm not arguing against your "greater good" argument, because that is correct, but this point that I've highlighted was incorrect.

@erodedthoughts
You should know very well that a shit-post upvoted with bots have a very small chance to make profit. It is lucky even on break-even.

We are not resisting against self voting of whales.

We are resisting a tyrant in the system that downvotes the fresh posts of innocent people while he has the ability to select the posts to downvote.

If you know something we are missing, you are kindly invited to the discord: https://discord.gg/qMWCbWR 
Please come and enlighten us.

FD.

You didn't decline payout. XD

Okay, I should make a real reply while I'm waiting for the stupid 30-minute timer to upvote.

I personally dislike using flags to enforce what you personally think, but I understand why they're doing it. People are abusing the system to make money. Buying/selling votes is bad enough, but doing it at the last minute to ensure a larger payout is particularly sneaky. Some of them even actually make good posts, but they're just greedy. They want more and more money and found a loophole to make it.

I'm not going to tell people how to use their votes though. I'm just going to judge a post based on its merits. If it's a shit post, and someone upvoted it to an insane amount, self-vote or not, people should consider flagging it. People should also grow the fuck up and not revenge flag back. Flagging something because you're pissed at the user is fucking childish. But I suppose they too can waste their votes how they wish.

>Stop buying votes and power up!

## Power UP and Steem ON! 

Motto since day 1!

# Hello comrade ... I really agree with the post there. but they want to advance like other people by buying upvote, so that their post is fed by bots. why is that because big fish do not want to eat small fish ... look at all post steemit players original, no upvote by big fish. there is one way to prevent it do not legalkan (robot upvote). let's say the post is not quality, a lot of quality and quality writing to buy upvote machine. except you .

This makes a lot of sense. Also remember that grumpy buys votes himself. Not buying votes is unfortunately not a sure fire way to not get down voted. He seems much more concerned with late voting. 

 It's definitely his right to self vote, however that was the last big fight here and now it's perfectly acceptable so what's next? Hell transisto even used to run a bot that down voted self votes and people applauded it. 

The one thing that has caused so much of an uproar with grumpy is an obvious whale intentionally hurting minnows. No matter the reason that looks bad anywhere. It makes smaller fish really scared to be here also. This platform cannot thrive on fear.  

Themarkymark  has a great point, most large whales did not get there by powering up earnings, many of them simply mined their coin or bought it ridiculously cheap. 

Powering up is very important but for some its simply a luxury.  Also, If people would rather make trouble and drama then work together then the long term of steemit won't matter anyway. Who in their right mind would want to join/stay on a platform claiming freedom and decentralization that is clearly dictated monarchy and economic social hierarchy?

In a system entirely based on currency it is crazy to think that people won't try to find creative ways to make it. 

If steemit creators are actually behind grumpy these tactics are even more unwarranted. If people like @Dan or other creators would have come with a proposal or even a rule for that matter they would've gotten a much better and more positive response from basically anyone here. Hell they created the place, why wouldn't people listen to them?

The senseless harming of innocent small fish is simply not required. 

Ever since I came here people have been bitching about other people doing this or that wrong... saying that this or that will ruin steemit if not kept in check...

The only way to keep slaves when you are vastly out numbered by them is to keep them arguing and fighting each other.  

The only thing that will surely ruin steemit the way it has ruined basically every nation and almost any good thing on this planet is intolerance.  Working together is the only way to ensure steemits long term future.

Nice one actually...

>Write quality post

That has very little to do with it.  Vote bots would not be necessary if the trending and/or the hot algorithms actually rewarded quality content.  They have proven over time that no matter how many views and upvotes you receive, your only hope at getting noticed is to draw the attention of a whale and/or some dolphins.  The vast majority of vote bot users lose, and I agree with your point that they would probably be better off powering up those SBD, but some of them make the investment just to be seen.  Those who write quality posts shouldn't have to do that, but they do.

I agree with the idea of whales self voting, but I don't think the algorithm should give their upvote any more worth than minnows when it comes to trending pages.

I personally prefer to just power up myself =\ The bot owners call it "Advertising" but honestly, I can't see it as such.  It's a waste of money if you ask me, it's better to power up and become a whale, than to throw money at a whale to get a post boosted but still end up losing money in the end just to get your narcissism fix.

I used bots in my beginning months ago, but after some deeper thinking and discussions I quit. Like you said it, if more powered up, didn't buy upvotes and didn't drain every last sbd and steem they make here to buy shit they don't really need, things would be a bit better. 
Of course the point of view changes when we talk about users from poor countries that see those 5$ upvotes as the money to get them for a whole week. It is so much complicated and I can partially ubderstand those people.
Still, well-said!

I always wonder, they all can bring positive changes by encouraging users to not use upvote bots and write good content and they will upvote. They could use the same amount of their power that they are using today to downvote. And its my personal perception that encouragement works in a better way than discouraging or downvoting.

The rich gets richer...

Short and sweet. Resteemed. You are welcome

That was direct and to the point. I must say this post was Direct.  love the monkey example