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Why Leo Is Doing What Hive Seemingly Cannot by taskmaster4450

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· @taskmaster4450 ·
$23.57
Why Leo Is Doing What Hive Seemingly Cannot
@blocktrades put up an [excellent post last night that outlines a road for the next 6 months](https://peakd.com/hive-139531/@blocktrades/roadmap-for-hive-related-work-by-blocktrades-in-the-next-6-months) when it comes to that organization's focus.  It is a bit technical at times yet is well worth the read, as is the comments.

One of the comments, placed by @therealwolf, caught my attention.

<center>![hivequest.png](https://images.hive.blog/DQmPf4vMgKSaEVCE5yKSrCFZvqRYpA1THZq1HcGtM4Jsprm/hivequest.png)</center>

This brings up an interesting question: why was Leo able to generate interest and demand while Hive cannot?

Obviously, the answer to this question might hold some keys as to why Hive, overall, is languishing.

# User Experience

This might seem like something that is obvious but it is summed up in the comment.

Leo is focused on the user experience.  That was the case from the beginning.  All updates are done with the intention of making the time spend on Leofinance more enjoyable.  

It starts with the development and filters through to the community.  Feedback that is given to the core team is well received and, if applicable, implemented.  Most of the features on the present site are from the suggestions of community members.  

This is also something that translates to the main accounts active on that platform (influencers if you will).  Leo has probably more engagement that any other interface on Hive.  Why is that?  Perhaps it is the change in the reward curve, but that is a debatable point.

Nevertheless, we now see a system whereby larger accounts are upvotes comments on a daily basis.  The largest Whale on Leo puts out more than 100 upvotes like that per day, offering up more than 2 LEO each.  Certainly there are a few "spammy" type comment but those are left unrewarded.  People who are making a concerted effort especially newer people are benefited.

Now, we have to admit that it is a bit easier for Leofinance since it is a more targeted platform.  Hive is a melting pot of all areas of interest.  This makes the finding of content a bit more difficult.  Nevertheless, with feeds and communities, we have ways of finding what mostly suits us.

# Development

Here is a subject that is a bit odd to mention when citing a post that details the road map for development.  However, it is a vital piece of the puzzle.

Leofinance.io does not look like anything else on Hive.  It is a UI built from the ground up.  If we look at most of the tribes, they are still using the old Steemit.com clone.

The challenge here goes back to the first point.  That UI was designed, what, almost 5 years ago?  It has not changed much in that time.  We know Steemit Inc did little to it.

Thus, it is encouraging to see Blocktrades mention the ability to alter Hive.blog in an easier way.  This was badly overlooked.  Obviously, with the fork in the Spring, there were other priorities, yet this being ignored has consequences.

Can anybody really proclaim that the old Steemit Inc interface is inspiring?  Besides, what do we think of a UI that hasn't been updated in almost 5 years?  Can you imagine if Amazon did that?  Or Facebook?  Or even Bo's Plumbing and Electrical?

Here again, we do get into a bit of a quandary.  Leofinance can concentrate upon developing its application and building out its ecosystem.  Those like Blocktrades who are involved in the core coding for the blockchain have a much wider scope of work and, thus, responsibility.  Therefore, we have to give the benefit when it comes to prioritizing.  

# Core Team Is For The Community = Confidence

We can call this a lack of greed if we want.

There is little doubt from anyone who is actively involved with Leofinance where the loyalty lies.  It is a team that demonstrated over the past year and a half that it is dedicated to building out a platform that can benefit all the users.  The benefit on the individual level is not the main priority right now.  Instead, the vision is on the longer term payout.

@khaleelkazi jokes about not selling until the individual token price exceeds that of Bitcoin.  As hysterical as that it, it does inspire confidence.  Why?  Because everyone knows he, nor other team members, are into scalping the system for what they can.  Instead, money is flowing in yet it not leaving.  That only occurs when a core set of people believe in what is happening.  This ends up spreading to the newer members as they see people's actions matching what they are saying.

How does this contrast with Hive?

Based upon the comments and posts we saw over the last few years, it is the exact opposite.  Certainly, Steemit Inc was a major problem before the hard fork.  Many were limited in what could be done since that organization held all the cards.  They were the developers and all had to wait on them.

That said, we still have many of the same witnesses.  Whether it is reality or not, perception is often the only thing that matters.

Obviously, with the top 25 Witnesses, there are variances among all of them.  That said, the perception by many is that these people are greedy and only care about themselves.  The accusation is that they are using Hive as their own ATM.  Not only do they make bank as a consensus witness, many also bilk the proposal system by getting funded while doing very little.  

Whether this is accurate or not, it is the perception that is out there among many.  Certainly, that is not every witness and many are deeply committed to doing all they can for Hive regardless of their personal gain, at least in the short-term.

The bottom line is that any organization, regardless of the endeavor or structure, is going to struggle without confidence.  

# Growth

The abovementioned comment shows where the focus commonly goes to in the crypto world.  It also shows why most projects fail.

What is the basis of the comment?  Token demand and how to incentive token holders.  That is it.  

Leofinance never concentrated on the price of the token.  It was not relevant to the conversation.  Instead, the focus was upon growth.  For the past 9 months, there were a number of DM on discord about ways to keep the user base growing.  Never was it what needs to be done to raise the demand for the token.  In fact, while much of the development was taking place, the price of LEO was plummeting.  It went from .30 HIVE down to about .025.  Yet, through it all, never was that even looked at.

It is basic business to focus upon growth.  That is what every entity needs.  What is Hive doing in that area?  It is flat.  Is there any wonder why the price of the token is suffering?  

The mention is on the success of the liquidity pool, again ignoring all that went into getting Leofinance to that point.  Nevertheless if we look upon that, we can see the difference.

Many people put in more then 25,000 LEO into the LP.  If we view that through the lens of the total circulation of roughly 5.5 million, we see the equivalent on Hive would be about 1.6 million.  How would Hive's LP on Uniswap be if a few people put up 1.6 million HIVE?

Obviously that is a bit absurd but it does emphasize the point.  Large amount of people's LEO holdings were powered down and put into the LP.  There was a conscious effort to fund it by the core team.  This likely provided confidence to smaller account who followed suit.

# Build Build Build

This is an idea that goes beyond just development although that is part of it.  Everything that is being done on Leofinance, both by the core team and the community, is with the intention of making it bigger.  This means we all build in our own way.

Not all are developers able to code sensational applications.  However, we all can get involved to help build the different aspects of the community.  Larger accounts do so by manually curating in an effort to help spread the tokens out.  This makes newer members advocates for the platforms.

Even the smallest of accounts have things to contribute.  Often it is a comment or an inspiring post.  Either way, efforts are taking to embrace those people.  In short, the "feel" of Leofinance is welcoming.

Can the same be said for Hive?

The users are the most important aspect.  Again, this is business 101.  Yet, on Hive, we do not see that idea coming forth.  Until that happens, there will be challenges.  Leofinance basically took a path that avoided that mess.  Other tribes can follow.

As for the token prices, the fact that Leo is not monkeying around, trying to manipulate things is paying off big time.  Certainly there are some "investors" but most people buying up Leo are the users themselves.  

There are roughly 550 users on Leofinance, with a token circulation of about 5.5 million.  Again, using the same percentage to HIVE, we would see an active user base of about 36,000.  Hive is like a quarter of that.

Here we see the incentive.  Leo users are buying up the token because they are having a great experience, have confidence in the core team, and are all working to build something bigger.

# Success In Spite Of

Leofinance is succeeding in spite of all that is taking place elsewhere.  The team basically is putting its head down and getting to work.

One advantage to a system like Hive is that, as long as the blockchain is running, projects can excel.  Again, there needs to be a certain level of core development that makes the blockchain stable and productive.  However, outside of that, teams are free to operate as they wish.

So how does the path of Hive get changed?

Perhaps the easiest way is for some of the lessons from Leofinance start to filter through the Hive ecosystem.  At this point, there is a model for all tribes to follow.  How would thinks be around here if there were 5 or 6 tribes having similar success as Leo?  To me, that is the Golden Nugget.  

We see reports about the number of communities that are opened up each day.  We have like 40-50 new ones a week.  With the hundreds of communities that were started, isn't there a few in there that can gain some traction?  Whether it is photography, natural medicine, sports, or any other topic, the process is not rocket science.  If there is one developer who can add features to enhance the user experience, that is a great starting point.

Ethereum seems to be laying out a model for Hive to follow.  Certainly, that is a well know blockchain yet the rage of 2020 was DeFi.  That is what got the attention.  Everything from Uniswap to Compound to Maker to SushiSwap.  By virtue of their popularity, this all filtered through to Ethereum.  

It is through the success of communities like Leofinance that eventually pushed Hive forward.  However, to get to that point, we are going to require more than just a few communities pushing things forward.

Nevertheless, the future potential is great since the network effort can be explosive if a number of communities/projects start to step up.  It becomes a numbers game at that point.

So what are your thoughts on this?  Let us know in the comment section.

___
If you found this article informative, please give an upvote and rehive.



https://images.hive.blog/0x0/https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/doze/MkkDNhyH-2020_04_13_16_57_48.gif

gif by @doze

<center>![vision2025.png](https://images.hive.blog/DQmTq4nEvXKzWhpw8SunYs3gV7iQ5xqiEahECBWvDnf8xSW/vision2025.png)</center>


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@abztraxxx ·
Hi! Nice post. As a new user I can point to some different stuff that might lead to growth:
- Getting HIVE and Keychain working was a bit of an hazzle, an easy accessible guide would be nice.
- Already I have had a multiple "errors" when trying to post, etc.
- Some times the "errors" have just been that I haddent "configured" correctly, such as when buying NFT (Diddent know I had to fill the nftshowroom with tokens from Keychain)
- The UX is a bit slow and unintuaive.

Other than that, I think this project i great and have a good future!!
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@acesontop ·
>Here we see the incentive. Leo users are buying up the token because they are having a great experience, have confidence in the core team, and are all working to build something bigger.

That sums up everything and although some have criticized me for powering down HIVE and buying LEO, I am continuing to do that. My personal experience with leofinance has been the best on the blockchain, the new and the old one, thus far. 

I agree on the comment that somehow Steemit, Inc is now translated to the top 25 witnesses which can be proved by that 500 HBD per day for 60 days proposal that was approved through stake being used despite the community disagreement. 

We have a whole different situation in here where the community seems to be tied with the dev team and especially @khaleelkazi, they take into account *plebs opinions* as well and seems that somehow efforts are mutual, whereas on the base chain the situation is a bit different.

Although we(leofinance), and I know it sounds weird to separate it from Hive like it would be able to exist by itself, don't have a development fund as hive does, the development and upgrades are more obvious. 

Why wouldn't anyone buy into this project and power up. Believe I have never powered up my Hive account at the pace I am doing with LEO and it's all because the perspective is clear. 

*Why Leo Is Doing What Hive Seemingly Cannot*

IT FEELS LIKE A DAMN COMMUNITY and it gained the trust of his members. How can I have my full trust in a circle of people that seem to mostly see their own pockets, and again the DAO is living proof for that.

Bottom line, leofinance has gained my trust and most of my time spent on the blockchain and when I, as a community member, am doing seemingly better from one week to another, why the tribe and token would do the opposite.

Community, in my opinion, is still the number one asset of a crypto project such as Hive.  
  

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@taskmaster4450le ·
Trust is a crucial factor that is overlooked.  Without that, most projects, wherever they are, will have a tough time.

That said, the advantage Hive does have is all the different projects feed into it.  Thus, if we have a bunch of applications like Leo, all pulling in people from the outside, then the totality of that growth is actually on Hive.

Each time we post a comment, no matter what the UI, it ends up on Hive.  So on Leo, we are pushing for 1,000 comments a day: Hive does a ton more than that.  However, in totality of the number of people as well as the token circulation, it needs a great deal more.

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@adamada ·
Community and development made me consider being active on Leo. Hive base layer has a lot of niche topics but too few users are active and a lot of people seem too preoccupied to engage. While there are some active communities out there that really encourage more user interaction, most of the time these are niche topics I don't find interesting. Leofinance answers the need for information and a community that encourages info exchange.

What sealed the deal was seeing how often updates were being posted regularly. More developments planned and underway meant there is a drive to take the community at greater heights. Community and development are strong combinations to drive the token's value higher.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
>While there are some active communities out there that really encourage more user interaction, most of the time these are niche topics I don't find interesting.

This is good news if true.  

I am with you, much of it might not be my cup of tea.  However, all communities, no matter what the flavor, if they are pushing engagement, then it is of benefit.  While it does make it harder for those who lack the interest in those communities, it is of overall benefit if they are succeeding.

The key is pushing engagement and getting it are two different things.  After all @abh12345 has been pushing it on Hive for a few years.  So it isnt from a lack of effort.

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@adamada ·
> While it does make it harder for those who lack the interest in those communities, it is of overall benefit if they are succeeding.

True. I'm still waiting for like minded people to come into the platform for some niche topics I'm also into. I have Gina set to ping me if anyone on the blockchain mentions some words related to those niche interests.

> The key is pushing engagement and getting it are two different things. After all @abh12345 has been pushing it on Hive for a few years. So it isnt from a lack of effort.

I agree with this. I have been previously been active at the engagement league contest @abh12345 hosts. But now I don't qualify due to not meeting the criteria (I'm powering down and transferring my funds to leodex, and other accounts for some projects). Nevertheless that never affected my routine of engaging. I'm making it a personal game to see how many engagement tokens I can accumulate per week. 

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@erikah ·
>The key is pushing engagement and getting it are two different things. After all @abh12345 has been pushing it on Hive for a few years. So it isnt from a lack of effort.

Yeah, effort has been made but I'd disagree with the quality of that engagement. Rewarding engagement is nice and useful, has its advantages, we all know that as Leo is the proof of that. However, there's a big difference between handing out rewards based on some metrics that can be (and it is) gamed by many, is not exactly what I call a success. No offense. Engagement on Leo is what I call genuine and that is value. 

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@adikhen ·
welldone  to explain more about BLOCK-TRADES
roadmap    
Blocktrade is working excellent with all responsibilities
Thanks for choosing an Interesting TOPIC AGAIN ;)  

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@d-company ·
I hate to say this. But your reply is really dull.

Engagement should be based on quality. This looks like an AI reply.

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vote details (2)
@khazrakh ·
To tell the truth, it looks like it was made after only reading the first few sentences and then getting the (false) impression, that the article was discussing the actual roadmap...

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@khazrakh/re-d-company-53zxqo)
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vote details (2)
@taskmaster4450le ·
Yeah a lot of similar comments from that account. 

Not sure if it is the language but not much of an effort.

Best to overlook it with the votes.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-d-company-489eet)
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@ainsuphaur ·
In simple terms, It is still using the monetary system and THAT will be the downfall. For ALL monetary systems are doomed from the beginning.
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@alexvan ·
Thanks for this good analysis. [leofinance.io](leofinance.io) is a lot involved in community and the community is also a lot involved in [leofinance.io](leofinance.io). The user experience is enhanced by this and of course by the UI. It is a total different game. With the new update, where there is no need to wait 3 seconds for the block to pass to have another action is tremendous.

And yes, most in top25 are following the same path, leaching the platform. There is the proposal of the witness vote decay, which none of them want, as with the HF, some big accounts became inactive, but the vote was imported. A witness vote shall be valid for 6 months and after that it shall decay. Simple and easy. The user if active shall receive a notification on the interface that one vote has decayed. 

Another no-go for a blockchain is to nullify the stake of an user. If it is a HF, then you can not call an airdrop the stake one has in it. 

This comment from @dalz is gold:

![image.png](https://images.hive.blog/DQmVbur6GBQG4YBU2jhiC5pXRAGmSBW3tUTarkt9Wy2LSZ7/image.png)

We shall decide and strive for this. Competition will make the chain better.

---

Regarding communities, there are some that are moving and even if the decentralized fans will not like my statement, there are some leaders that shape the future. Leading by example and action, rises the community and @khaleelkazi is doing it. Thanks for that!

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@alexvan/re-taskmaster4450-ku3vb)
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vote details (2)
@ammonite ·
$0.02
I am sure it is very difficult to turn such a large ship as Hive due to the history and different opinions held. LEO can be much more nimble in this respect and the quick iterations keep the interest in it going. I am a bit frustrated with the other communities and their lack of development. When I hear talk of HMTs I really wonder why we would even need them if LEO is already doing so well getting their token out there and bringing it value ie. a strong community.
 
👍  , ,
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@taskmaster4450le ·
The idea of HMTs is for tokens to be instantly decentralized.  If at the base layer, they enjoy the same benefits as HIVE, being transacted on the witness nodes.  However, if it is done at a second layer, the smart contracts will be decentralized, at least how Blocktrades is planning.

With H-E, it is centralized at this point.  Many do not like that.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-ammonite-4vntrj)
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@amr008 ·
$0.03
I had always thought that the way Hive/Steem curation rewards are paid out was not ideal . Before leofinance introduced the Linear rewards distribution , that idea had crossed my mind , thinking that would be good for Hive. 

Do you think there is slightest chance it might happen in Hive?
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@erikah · (edited)
Someone, a witness actually, once had an idea that was put up for discussion, but it wasn't the flat rewarding curve. There were pros and cons but that's all. 

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@erikah/re-amr008-2jb2mx)
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vote details (1)
@taskmaster4450le ·
They might adopt it.  However, at the end of the day, if the communities are doing their job, the payouts in Hive will be a bonus and not the main focus.

Hive will ultimately be used for governance and resource credits.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-amr008-74yka2)
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@amr008 ·
I never thought about communities that way until I read this . I was always of the opinion that Hive is the primary way of earning / interacting and the community earnings are bonus but the other way around makes a lot of sense .
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@anggreklestaleo ·
From my view, now HIVE is very very flat sense. Honestly, Steem is better with growing on the community including the curation system. Here I am talking about the user experience including onboard users.

Fortunately, now we have LEO and I am grateful for the growth of the community at LEO Finance. @Leo.Voter helps everyone look better on the side with whales at LEO cooperating with their votes. That's better than making posts on HIVE especially for small accounts.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@anggreklestaleo/re-taskmaster4450-38qdo2)
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vote details (2)
@atnazo ·
Prove me, if I am wrong, but if I good remember leo token have faster power downs and liquid rewards.
Full power down here is 90 days on hive, in crypto money need to flow that's really simple.
People like to trade, wait for occasion to make profits, but with all stake in power and long power down times we can't do much and we are dissapointed, when happening another bull run without us.
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@taskmaster4450le ·
That is correct.  Leo does have a 4 week power down.  Does that make a difference to people?  I am not sure.

How many people get the LEO token for trading?  Again I cant answer that question so there might be some validity to it.

The difference with Hive is the token is used for governance which is not the case with LEO. One of the main reasons to have such a long power down time is to deter exchanges from powering up which affects governance.  In this case, they are not using their tokens.

Posted Using [LeoFinance <sup>Beta</sup>](https://leofinance.io/@taskmaster4450le/re-atnazo-45pvfz)
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@aussieninja ·
This is so weird.  I actually haven't used LeoFinance that much because I thought they were exactly a Steemit clone and I preferred the interface of PeakD so much more... but now that I've logged onto https://leofinance.io/ I can see that it's completely different.  Has it always been like this?  I'm now wondering if I had been looking at LeoFinance posts through Hive.blog or doing something else silly.

I've definitely noticed that the creators in my feed have really dropped off their activity in the last couple of months (myself included honestly) except for those people posting regularly on LeoFinance. I think part of the appeal too is LeoFinance creators are earning two different valuable tokens.  That's pretty huge.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@taskmaster4450le ·
>Has it always been like this?

It went live, if memory serves me, about 6 or 7 months ago.  It was originally based upon Peakd but is now adding more features.  We are about to see a feature that is similar to twitter that will allow for microblogging.  However, instead of it registering as a post, it will be seen as a comment.  This avoids a great deal of the setbacks on Hive.

One will also be able to have the microblog (leo tweet) feed directly to twitter.  Thus it can serve as a front end for twitter to some degree.

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vote details (1)
@bil.prag ·
$0.02
yes and no.
User Experience. we can argue as it is personal preference but peakd for me is still better, but no arguing about the fact that Leofinace is doing a great job.

half of the engagement is based on the hype. and also you are right that Leofinance is a more targeted platform with currently much less posts and users. 

Development
> Leofinance can concentrate upon developing its application and building out its ecosystem. Those like Blocktrades who are involved in the core coding for the blockchain have a much wider scope of work and, thus, responsibility. Therefore, we have to give the benefit when it comes to prioritizing.

As you said here, totally different parts of development. Can't be compered. My point of view is that Leo is doing a really good job on making on boarding easier and pushing it out into the word. but we need to go back to centralized vs decentralized. Khal can just click a button (of course the work needs to be done...) and it is up and running. On hive you first need to get a broader consensus, than coordinate with witnesses...

Khal is for sure giving it all to make it work. He does look like a good guy and someone who you can trust to do the right thing. If you just look how the hack was dealt with is probably enough. 

On all other things, we are going back to something you also mentioned, comparing the incomparable. If Leo had to think about blockchan, witnesses... he would not be able to do what he does, but he is using base layer the best he can.

What Khal recognized and is using in fullest is he has the biggest pool of potential users in the area he is working on. Crypto and finance. Because if you look at it, who is most likely to start using a blockchain and buy and use tokens? People that are already into crypto. And i would argue that all people in crypto are into finance. But not all people in crypto are into sports, art, photography, cooking, hiking, travel... So he used it for a base layer and now he is branching out with new ways of on boarding people that are not that much involved in crypto (don't understand how everything works, and are not that eager to learn)

Leo is for sure showing everyone what can be done, and how base layer can be used and it is doing a good job of it.


 
👍  , ,
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@taskmaster4450le ·
All that is correct and acknowledged.  And for core interaction and coding of the blockchain, you are 100% on.

However, what about all the other tribes/communities?  They are not hindered by what you allude to.  They do not have to deal with witness or blockchain coding to evolve their projects.

That is why I feel all this needs to take place outside of the base layer of Hive.  As long as the blockchain keeps evolving to hand all that it is tasked with, such as all the transactions including posts, comments, and whatnot, then all is well.  Peakd keeps improving and updating, so it is not as if there isn't a front end that keeps making progress, there is.

However, peakd is still a general use application.  There are dozens of tribes that are more targeted yet they seem to be doing little.  Certainly, they have the same freedom as Khal to innovation and do as they see fit with their applications.

Yet, for some reason, none of them are making progress.  The games seem to be doing a better job of it although they, at this point, do not appear to be bringing in a ton of users (perhaps I am wrong on that, I dont have numbers either way).



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@bil.prag ·
tribes are maybe lacking ambition, finance, building web pages knowledge... i don't know. maybe some things will change with something Khal mentioned few times. that there will be an option for others to use what is build on Leo.

I did my caveman stats analysis for splinterlands few weeks ago. my database knowledge is not that great but if i did it right, very very small amount of accounts registered through splinterlands end up ever doing anything on social part of the chain. it is now out of my head numbers but something like from 1000 accounts 5-6 end up using anything else than json transactions.

I need to check that out.
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@botefarm ·
You mindset is crazily mind-blowing, I must say. 
I really don't know why the Hive core team doesn't want to improve Hive interface. More disappointed was the last HF with no *tangible* not *concrete* change seen. But I believe we will get there someday.

I have a question though, can there be another tribe with the same goal?
For example, since Sports has been doing all this laxity, can there be another Sports tribe with another name. Is there chances of them succeeding?



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@taskmaster4450le ·
>I really don't know why the Hive core team doesn't want to improve Hive interface.

I wouldn't say they dont want to change the UI.  They noted how they want to make improvements.  It is just a matter of priorities and there was back end stuff that was more crucial.

>More disappointed was the last HF with no tangible not concrete change seen.

Again we are dealing with code that pertains to blockchain functionality.  This is vital.  From what I understand, some of the code was more than 5 years old and was spotty when written.

>I have a question though, can there be another tribe with the same goal?
For example, since Sports has been doing all this laxity, can there be another Sports tribe with another name. Is there chances of them succeeding?

Most certainly.  Anyone can set up a tribe/community.  If one creates a website like Leofinance did that provides the user with a better experience, creates a token, and does a better job at attracting users, then that will usurp SPORTs.

Of one could go a step further and not create another SPORTS but rather set up a community for Real Madrid or the Dallas Cowboys or College Football.

Get a bit narrower in focus.

But people are free to create what they want.

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@bozz ·
Very interesting.  I do like PeakD and I feel like it is much quicker than the Leo front end for posting comments etc. I know a lot of that has to do with scotbot and probably can't be changed, but it would be nice to have a quicker experience similar to what we have come to expect on the main chain.  It is definitely interesting to read about all of the thought and preparation they have put into the project.

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@bil.prag ·
i think they mentioned building a base that will be a link to the blockchain so it will work faster but in the end also have everything on the chain.

i butchered the explanation :D
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@bozz ·
No, that kind of makes sense.  Thank you!

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@taskmaster4450le ·
There are updates being worked on to cache more of the content that is posted to speed things up.  There is a limit to how fast things can go but I know it is something they keep looking at.

Peakd is a wonderful UI.  It offers a great deal to the community and did change the layout from the Steemit.com format.  It is why I guess it is so popular.

Nothing to say against that UI or project.  They are doing a great job.

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@bozz ·
Yeah, PeakD was a total game changer when it came out.  I really enjoy using it.  I wish there was a way I could just use one platform and I didn't have to bounce back and forth between the two without losing rewards.

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@cflclosers ·
I'm just getting back into hive/leo after the fork. I posted and engaged hard on steemit/hive for over 3 years and the fork disheartened me. In fact I liquited all hive engine tokens and stakes and held them in hive just in case.

I'm sorry now that I bailed on Leo but since its inception it has been the only community that mattered. So I'm kind of back because it is the place I go to learn and with all the news regarding crypto lately it is my "go to" spot for info.

I'm behind on everything here. All the wleo and eth stuff and I hope to learn and dig back in.  I'm I will stake my new leo earnings and get back into the community.

I hope this place grows and I suppose outreach to active accounts on hive that are not involved in @leo.finance is a good place to start. If there are any lol.



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@shortsegments ·
At the risk of tooting my own horn, I love this wrapped stuff, NFT and cross blockchain trading, so I have several posts you could read, plus I also reference others good articles because we all see different perspectives and can learn from each other. That’s the beauty of Leo right now, and makes it work so well. 

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@claudio83 ·
Hive has a much more complex system to manage and develop, namely the blockchain that Leofinance uses for its interface.

an update of Hive.blog would be very welcome with a more user friendly user experience.

much of the work of the @blocktrades team will focus on second layers, which will best allow for the creation of new Dapps. It is a very long job and it takes patience, at the moment I don't foresee big interests in Hive. Great news for us so we can earn Hive as long as possible at even low prices

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@cryptoandcoffee ·
I don't believe what we are seeing is bad for Hive but a more positive than a negative. Hive is improving at speed but we just can't see it and one has to just look back over the last 7 months.
I am more positive for Hive these days with Leo's moves as I think it is making the entire package stronger and it isn't one against the other but both together. Hive will have it's day at some point and who knows could easily surpass Leo in value. I believe that one needs to hold both coins and this is not one or the other.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
I agree with you.

I really do not have a problem with what Hive is doing at this point.  Yes it is not noticeable to the user base but that is always the case with back end stuff.  In fact, the more it is noticeable to users, the worse it is.

Leo does add to the value of Hive.  Too many want to separate the two.  All Leo transactions and activity resides on Hive.

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@cryptoknight12 ·
Centralized focus ;)
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@taskmaster4450le ·
Only at the secondary level.

Not at the base level since there doesn't need to be a lot happening there.  The coding has to keep advancing the blockchain but the growth and expansion needs to come from the communities.  They are free to do as they see fit.



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@deadswitch ·
Great points. 

I wish in some respects that LeoFinance was not constrained by Hive at times. In two ways, by the Blockchain performance and the related API nodes and operations that impact performance and also just by being tarred by the Hive brush. I know that seems harsh but it is true in many respects for all of the reasons you mention above. Witnesses treating it like an ATM, proposal abuse etc.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
Yeah well they are trying to work out those problems.  And do not think they are exclusive to Hive.

How would you like to be building a Leofinance on Ethereum with all the issues they had.  One moment it costs a few cents to transact, then it is a few dollars.

There are a lot of things going on to improve the performance of the chain.  I think it will get there.

For example, Blocktrades mentioned altered the data so that applications are able to pull only what they need (usernames, balances, etc..) and not all the API data.  This will make life easier on developers while also, I imagine, improving the performance of those nodes since less data will be pulled with each request.

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@deadswitch ·
I truly hope so. I only noticed that the performance was relatively fine before the hardfork and after it, it has been problematic on many fronts. There is hope that there is continual development but at the same time I hope it is targeted properly. After all, I believe one of the advantages of the hardfork was improvements in the performance.

Still, there is everything to play for. I have my fingers crossed and always looking up!

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@edje ·
You make some very good points! HIVE for sure needs more communities like Leo. Trust, Passion, Dedication and SUer Experience whilst leaving Greed out of the picture, are the key drivers for successful communities. LEO showed the HIVE community how it can be done. I do very much hope other communities will follow as well. Like the STEM community. I think that can be a really nice one as well. Photography you also mentioned: When such community can be build out with all sort of tools like NFT and maybe even photo editing tools combined with a smartphone App, can go a long way as well. Its not only that the existing tribes are keep using the 1.0 STINC developed user interfaces, these teams seem to lack the ability to create successful services; Or they know what is needed but dont have the resources, or passion or whatever else is missing.

To grow HIVE, maybe it would be great if for instance the LEO team will launch a kinda incubator program for all those who like to learn from the LEO team, and get their help and advise, when they need this. I do know we have more then a few people in the HIVE community with great ideas, but what I also see is to create a full functional team to bring an idea to implementation and all, is d*rn hard; Almost impossible when someone doesn't have connections with the people that are required to create a successful team. This is an area where (some of the) HIVE rewards can be used: To fund accelerator programs. Didn't see anybody talking about this before, but I strongly believe we shall bring the knowledge and support of the successful HIVE dApp teams to those who are serious in creating another dApp, whether this has a focus on blogging, gaming or anything else. Like the NFTshowroom! I would love for that team to grow bigger in all aspects so that people from outside HIVE will start to use that service too.

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@eirik · (edited)
@khaleelkazi has some great ideas under his sleeves and that's very important.

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@erikah ·
$0.03
What attracts me the most to Leo is the engagement and the interesting topics, plus the possibilities of investing in different projects. The flat curation curve helps a lot in growing and curating. 

I've been struggling on hive engaging as most of the posts are not exactly what I'm interested in. There are a few communities that fit, but that's all. 

I hope something is going to change on Hive too as change is needed, that's obvious. 

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@taskmaster4450le ·
>I've been struggling on hive engaging as most of the posts are not exactly what I'm interested in. There are a few communities that fit, but that's all.

This is true.  Of course, this is where the communities were suppose to come into play.  With all that are set up, we should have a number of things we are attracted.  However, that isnt the case.

Leofinance is targeted which helps those of us who are interested in finance and crypto.

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@filotasriza3 ·
for what is worth i am really happy they put up a post about the upcoming developments or in general of what they have in mind. we got a lot of fuzz these weeks and many people lost their faith in hive (maybe they are right only time will tell)

it was good seeing all that interaction under the comment section as well. Hopefully, they will start working hard and finally "team up" with the 2 layer ecosystem (tribes/dapps) and have the results we all want

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@taskmaster4450le ·
The action in the comment sections is terrific.  This is making engagement noticeably different.  Of course, this all feeds through to hive since every comment on Leofinance is on Hive.

However, 1,000 comments a day is a big deal on Leo, not so much on Hive.

Hive is a much bigger ship.

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@fjcalduch ·
EXCELLENT POST!!!
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@frankbacon ·
Excellent summary @taskmaster4450!

I really would love to be able to write out all of my thoughts here about Leo liquidity but I have restrictions : /

So I've HIVE!D this article and will be reading it again throughout the day with people who need to see this.  Kind regards Bruv!

https://media.giphy.com/media/jTSyAnw0Np0WuE9YsA/giphy.gif
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@funtraveller ·
In many ways, the Leo Team has proven themselves to be the trailblazers in Hive ecosystem. The core Hive team is more confident in implementing an idea knowing that it was implemented in Leo and it made a success.

I read in one of the comments in BT's post that there will be a proposal in DHF to request funds that will be used as an incentive for the WHive LP, awesome! That will definitely motivate Hivers to participate in providing liquidity in Uniswap. 

I think that's just the beginning, there will be more adaptations that will happen following Leo's footsteps.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
wHive already existed.  I think the move now is to decentralize it.

I am not real familiar with that but theycallmedan put up a comment saying when that happens, he is going on big time.

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@gandhibaba ·
Here is nothing short of a very detailed analysis of what is taking place on LEO finance vis a vis what is happening on Hive. I think you made an important point about the perception about witnesses who catch out from the community through frivolous proposals that adds little or no value to the Hive blockchain. Also, most of the people with large stakes on Hive are not really doing much to encourage new users to stay. That is not happening on LEO finance where the whales could easily splash upvotes on good posts.


I think that we have to make concerted efforts to encourage newbies while updating Hive to catch up with the trends. I hope that we can count on the amazing people here like @blocktrades and @therealwolf to give us a vision to run with. 


Thanks for putting up this fine post. Cheers!

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@taskmaster4450le ·
Well I tried to emphasize the steps that Leofinance took that is lacking on the rest of Hive.

As for the idea of the witnesses, laying out a vision, I am not sure there is where the focus needs to be.  A more important question is where is the vision of Sportstalk? Stemgeeks?  DPorn?  Or any of the dozens of other communities out there?  What are they doing to promote growth and expansion?

Certainly, Blocktrades laying out what the team is doing is vital.  It is a core element to things going forward.  There are also a number of witnesses who are very active, both in comment sections aa well as discord groups.  They are also involved in projects on the back end and do not get a lot of attention.  Marky is one who I know stepped in to help projects when they encounter technical difficulty.

So we have to be careful of lumping all in together.  

That said, there are a number who few know what they are doing.  The presumption is that if it is not being talked about, it isnt happening.  Here is where communication is key.

@therealwolf showed the dedication simply by asking the question.  That is engagement at its finest.  Trying to uncover answers or solutions to what is holding this place back.

Perhaps not a huge gesture in the minds of some but it is a part of the process that we need to undergo. 

If people arent asking the questions, we will not likely get the answers.

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@gandhibaba ·
Thanks for the additional clarifications. I think that I've learnt a lot reading your response. @Therealwolf is one witness I can vouch for anytime to do what is right to keep moving us forward. I can only hope for the best. Thanks for your time.

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@hedge-x ·
At this point I'm beginning to wonder to power down the rest of my Hive into LEO. 

Do you think LEO will abandon Hive for native ETH integration in the future? 

L2s (zkrollups) on ETH look very promising. Can be very cheap to run.



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@taskmaster4450le ·
>Do you think LEO will abandon Hive for native ETH integration in the future?

No I dont.

Hive provides an excellent back end for Leofinance and, at this point, that is what it is mostly used for.  

The move to Ethereum was to access the DeFi there and provide another use case for LEO.  We are likely to see the same thing with Thorchain when they offer the same ability.  I wouldnt be surprise if EOS is also done.

Having cross chain exposure is crucial.  Where the data is stored is of little consequence to the userbase.  As long as the base layer keeps improving, and Blocktrades makes progress with the speed of the system, Leofinance, at worst, can just use it as a backend.



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@hetty-rowan ·
$0.02
Not sure about what I'm going to say. Just assuming things here ... but my guess is that most of the tribes / communities on Hive never had the intention to create their own interface like Leo did. They probably never even had the intention to put so much effort in the tribe / community like Khal and the core team from Leo did. 

Most of them I guess are perfectly happy with people posting blogs in their community and curate the blogs while growing the hive power from their community account and their own hive accounts, and don't even have the vision to expand it any further. Yes they have their tokens, and that's about it. There are no teams working on development, it's all about getting posts in the community and there it stops. Some engage more than others, but overall there is no development at all. In none of them. 

That's where Leo stands out big. There is a team with a vision. They work on development, there are many plans, and they get that done! 

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@taskmaster4450le ·
I would agree with you wholeheartedly. 

Many of the communities fall into the scope you described and that is perfectly fine.  We have all types on here.

There are however, communities where people are wanting to get bigger.  There is also a questioning as to why Hive, overall, is not growing while Leo is making progress.  This article sought to provide the answers as to why that is.

Certainly not every community is going to try to duplicate Leofinance.  But there are many who want Hive to grow, hence it is best that we start to see some of the communities focus in this direction.

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@hetty-rowan ·
I would say it's best if communities don't try to duplicate Leo, they might be disappointed if the outcome was different. I would say they have to find their own way ... Take Leo as an example, it shows that growth is possible. And then it is up to the communities to find their own way, and achieve growth while everything happens under the safety zone of the great Hive hood.
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@holybread ·
Leaderboard Vote
Your current Rank (21) in the battle Arena of Holybread has granted you an Upvote of 15%
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@jmsansan ·
Great article @taskmaster4450le. I hope to see more communities following LeoFinance path and even improving it, there is room for more.

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@johnhtims ·
>Obviously, with the top 25 Witnesses, there are variances among all of them. That said, the perception by many is that these people are greedy and only care about themselves. The accusation is that they are using Hive as their own ATM. Not only do they make bank as a consensus witness, many also bilk the proposal system by getting funded while doing very little.

People often forget that Steem pumped to $8 back in the day when it had **no DAO** and was on **linear rewards**.  It had zero free flags too.

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@josediccus ·
I can relate with user's experience, Khal is a brilliant guy and he's been able to dig deep outside of the core of hive to create something really different and special. You can see that the innovations are coming really fast on leo and it somehow has a structural framework that will enable it doesn't fail, this further even makes it rather attractive and it'll only become better with time

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@taskmaster4450le ·
That is true.  

The focus is upon building a very successful project.  It is more than just Lambos and a mooning token price.  Instead, it is the construction of a platform, from the ground up, that offers a lot of options to millions of people around the world,  Hopefully, a portion of them will find their way to Leofinance.

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@josediccus ·
Yeah, but then the fact that leofinance is unique, doing well, creating demand and more liquidity is something that Made me thought of buying in many months ago. We've been able to set a comfortable environment for incoming investors and all.
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@jrcornel ·
I think the answer to that question by the therealwolf is really pretty simple, though I think some of the things you touched on are probably true as well. The reason LEO has been able to attract liquidity on Uniswap is two fold:

 1. There is no other option for trading LEO (outside of very thinly trading hive-engine), LEO is not listed on other exchanges like HIVE is. LEO needs Uniswap while HIVE does not. If LEO were to be listed on many other exchanges like HIVE is there wouldn't be the need for the Uniswap pool for LEO either.

2. There is a reward incentive for people to provide liquidity with LEO. People collect part of the LEO inflation for providing liquidity while the people who provide liquidity with HIVE suffer as inflation rolls out day after day that their coins are not taking part in.

Regarding HIVE, I think one of the reasons HIVE is struggling so much is the DAO. We have thousands of dollars being paid out via the DAO every single day which eventually gets turned into HIVE. There simply isn't enough demand currently to offset the amount of money flowing out on a daily basis. That could easily change with a surge in demand, but for the last several months that surge hasn't come and it's a big reason the price of HIVE continues to drift lower.
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@taskmaster4450le ·
>That could easily change with a surge in demand, but for the last several months that surge hasn't come and it's a big reason the price of HIVE continues to drift lower.

We could say this is true for the last several year.

Without a doubt, the lack of growth is causing a host of problems.  Most entities, when there is tremendous growth, some of the fundamental problems are taken care of.  Certainly, there are other issues that arise but what people were fretting about seems to disappear.

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@khazrakh ·
$0.03
I think there are many reasons and to all of us different ones will matter the most.
To me, it's the linear curation curve, the engagement of both the authors and readers, and most importantly the constant progress made on the platform. I mean honestly, I've been using Hive since early spring and it feels like *nothing* has changed at all ever since.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
>I mean honestly, I've been using Hive since early spring and it feels like nothing has changed at all ever since.

In fairness, at least from the development side, there was a lot of back end and base coding that had to take place.  Thus, attention in that area obviously came in as a priority.  

But your overall point is right.  The problem is most of the communities fall into the same category.  Nothing changed on them in near two years.

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@khazrakh ·
Did not mean to be disrespectful here, I know there have been a lot of changes behind the scenes which are not apparent to the average user. That said, it's a topic that's probably more about how it *feels* to people than anything else. 
On Leofinance it seems like I wake up to something new and amazing almost every other day, on Hive it feels like I'll be using the same interface with the same functionality for years to come.

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@marki99 ·
The reason for the liquidity pool is simple. The main team behind Leofinance put an original 50k in liquidity, hyped the project up, and encouraged everyone to contribute. 

On hive, @theycallmedan helped finance the project, and the witnesses didn't really mention it or contribute. 
👍  
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@taskmaster4450le ·
Again, that is very true.  There were also LEO whales who put in a lot also.  This is something that was regularly talked about.

How many of the larger accounts put in 50K HIVE, or even 25K?



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@theycallmedan ·
For wHive I have been waiting for the decentralized version from FBslo. Once the decentralized version has been put out and independently audited I would be putting around 250k USD in to start things up.
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@mistakili ·
Perhaps Blocktrades needs to hire more developers so that there can be more division of labour, we cannot underrate the importance of development both frontend and backend while seeking for progress, nor can we neglect frontend for backend or vice-versa. Both need to move tandem. 

Without developers, Khals ideas would have only been ideas and hardly/slowly implemented, It is easier for Leofinance to piggyback Hive due to the core backend work already been done by Blocktrades dev team..

### Comparing Hive to Leofinance
This is another setback of decentralization where it falls short of efficiency. There is so much to do, but without a head, the lead dev team can only take on what they feel is important, which they've been doing on Hive, whereas on Leo, the head can steer the direction of the development that makes up his idea. So much for decentralization, but yeah we understand why. Taking a cue from bitcoin, development came from within the community, maybe Hive just doesnt have enough reach,..maybe will do with time. 


Much can be done to foster growth on Hive, stakeholders have a part to play so do witnesses. 

My take is in the first paragraph
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@taskmaster4450le ·
I think BT is well staffed.  They have a lot of people working on different things.  There are now people working on the front end.  That is not the greatest concern to me.  Actually, what is being done at the core level is advancing at a great pace.  I cut them some slack.  I am far from an expert but I know when dealing with code that goes back more than 5 years and was jumbled from the start, things are not easy.  A lot was rewritten since the hard fork which is advancing things.

I guess the point is there is an opportunity for the different communities to step up, in a way similar to Leofinance.  Perhaps they cant go to the same degree because, as you noted, Khal is a man on a mission.

Nonetheless, we have not seem much from any of the communities.  Maybe there is a lot of stuff in the pipeline (and I do know a few projects that are working on things), but it is not obvious to the average user.

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@mykos ·
I think to be fair to HIve. Hive has taken alot of the frontal attack and so did Steem that later became Hive. So the cost to build the network. The money that's drained out of the system all these things built hive to a certain level. So when you get to layer 2.. well now alot of those intial issues are gone.

For example the token projects that came after steem and hive have had to do less marketing and bare less of the grunt than steem and hive. These token projects don't have to battle through these several dozen witnesses to get things done. The other thing is HIve and Steem has allowed for alot of startup funding for many of these token projects. These are things hive itself didn't have. The rewards pool. .this dao system. All of this circulating already existing money is the backbone of these token projects.

So i'm not sure if these tokens are exactly self made so to speak. If they are than hopefully they'll create a trickle down. Not to take credit away from any project. I think Leo has done one of the best jobs it could do in this type setting. However there are many things that just would'nt be possible without HIve. So they are a product of HIve taking  the fall in my opinion. In addition to thatthere is another component i fear we should be mindful of.

That is to say that, the size of Leo and the inflation and supply.. we're talking light years differences between hive and Leo. Leo is able to supply a good circulation of funds in a smaller pool. It's like the age old battle of Socialism Vs Capitalism in a sense. You may take a rich Socialist nation of a small size and it do pretty well. You may take a huge Socialist nation and it doesn't due to the scale. So we don't know if Leo can make this type of system work on large scale maybe it just becomes like Steem or Hive. They worked quite well in the beginning as well. So as it's so many moving parts it's hard to say if we're just seeing 100% progress or just frustration in Hive from complexities inherent to the system itself. Thus people move their funds out.. That's not the same as growth and demand. So i think it's important that Leo figure out which is which. So that it's not a problem for them in the future. 

Once Leo determines that then i think the question can be better answered. All that said i think it's always important to improve. That's why i've had so much trouble buying the bitcoin narrative. As the bitcoin narrative goes don't touch it .. don't change it. This means don't really improve it. They then cite their philosophical reasons why but i find it dangerous to never improve a thing.

So Leo has improved whereas HIve has not in many ways.. This i believe to be true. However at the end of the day the security of Leo still depends somewhat on the security of HIve. As the Hive chain is still the supporting chain. I sometimes think the Justin Sun incident was maybe too much for these chains. I could only say in the future Leo may need to find some solution for that. 




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@taskmaster4450le ·
There is no doubt what you say is true.  I didnt mean to infer that Leo was operating in a vacuum.  As I said in the Hive versus Leo debate that some were trying to drum up, everything leo does is on hive.  It cannot be separated.

It is also true Hive is a much bigger ship.  That is why a Leo alone is not going to push it.  There needs to be many applications all reaching out and growing.  Much of this stems from development.  The Hive developers have the additional responsibility of the blockchain, something that the Leo ones do not.

Will Leo scale?  I think for the segment they are in they will.  Of course there scaling depends in great part to what the Hive base layer can handle.  This is where your point of it all coming back to Hive is accurate.

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@mykos ·
agreed

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@nathanmars ·
Content of the month!! Enjoyed reading it :)

Can't wait to put LeoFinance in top 20 Witness!

> It is through the success of communities like Leofinance that eventually pushed Hive forward. However, to get to that point, we are going to require more than just a few communities pushing things forward

I'm rooting for LEO and 3Speak

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@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.10
>Content of the month!! Enjoyed reading it :)

LOL the month is only 4 days old.

>Can't wait to put LeoFinance in top 20 Witness!

I can't either.  I think you need to make it your mission.  Start pounding all the big stakeholders to vote Leofinance as a witness.

You have the power my friend.

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@nathanmars ·
Let's do this !!

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@nealmcspadden ·
> As for the token prices, the fact that Leo is not monkeying around, trying to manipulate things is paying off big time. Certainly there are some "investors" but most people buying up Leo are the users themselves.
There are roughly 550 users on Leofinance, with a token circulation of about 5.5 million. Again, using the same percentage to HIVE, we would see an active user base of about 36,000. Hive is like a quarter of that.

This is what I talk about in those LEO price videos about the network effect. If people want to be here and participate, that translates into wanting a certain balance of the token. As rate of user growth exceeds the rate of token inflation, the price must then rise.


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@taskmaster4450le ·
Yep.  

For some reason, growth is completely overlooked.  People want to take shortcuts I guess.  The ultimately way to combat people dumping a token is to have a thriving community that is excited about the future.

They will eat up all tokens that are minted.  I mean, Leo could have twice the inflation rate and people would still be wanting the token.

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@marki99 ·
And what happens when you enter the next bear market, and instead of growth, you have shrinking? 

You get a 99% correction, exactly like steem in 2018-2019. 

- Growth is not sustainable. 
- Even if it was, what happens when you on-boarded the whole world? Price can only go back down.
- Burning tokens is sustainable. It creates intrinsic value for the token. 
- Burning allows you to ride bull and bear hype cycles with minimal damage. 

Why? Because hype brings in new people. And more people means more ads. And more ads mean more burning. 

When do you hit peak numbers for your website, in terms of users? At the bull market top, or right after. 

So imagine that through the whole of 2018, as the price of steem was going down, you had a massive userbase (much, much larger than it is today) who's attention was monetized and help cushion the price dump. It would be much better. 

And this would cause less people to leave. And you won. 
👍  
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@oldtimer ·
There is nothing more to add. You said it perfect.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
Short but sweet from @oldtimer.

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@pixresteemer ·
<center>![pixresteemer_incognito_angel_mini.png](https://files.peakd.com/file/peakd-hive/pixresteemer/8h7BBw1w-pixresteemer_incognito_angel_mini.png)</center><center>Bang, I did it again... I just rehived your post!</center><center>Week 34 of my [contest](/hive-179017/@pixresteemer/the-re-hive-contest-results-week-33-and-start-week-34) just started...you can now check the winners of the previous week!</center><center><sub>11</sub></center>
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@poshbot ·
https://twitter.com/taskmaster4450/status/1334510182412541957
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@poshbot ·
https://twitter.com/Bhattg18/status/1334523608446640132
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@r1s2g3 ·
I will say that it is first post I have seen by witness/development team that is relating to end user directly .(from curation curve, witness voting or reputation based system.)

Have they keep communicating regularly then there will be no perception that top witness are working for their own profits only.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
Blocktrades is rather good about posting the whereabouts of what they are working on.  Each week, almost without fail, there is an update post.

As for the others, it is hit or miss.  Some of the witnesses put out reports but they rarely get into the topics such as you mentioned.

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@rmsadkri ·
I think the success of Leofinance lies in their ability to directly respond to users' comments, suggestions and queries. It feels the team is listening to us and are responding to what we have to say. It may be due to the team's size which makes them nimble compared to Hive. I don't know much about the Hive team but i would want the core team to focus on highlighting the value of the blockchain to users and investors. Let's make Hive a fun place to be.
It could be through supporting communities and secondary projects to onboard more users. @cryptobrewmaster and @dcity are amazing products. The Hive core team can push them and highlight them on social media. Basically, the core team needs to come forward and start selling the products.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
>I think the success of Leofinance lies in their ability to directly respond to users' comments, suggestions and queries. It feels the team is listening to us and are responding to what we have to say.

I would agree, this is an important part of the situation.  We are seeing the community feel a part of it all.  The same cannot be said for everywhere.

>I don't know much about the Hive team but i would want the core team to focus on highlighting the value of the blockchain to users and investors.

Personally I want the core development team to be focused upon making the blockchain as powerful and stable as they can.  That is where the attention must lie.

The other aspects we can do ourselves.  After all, this is social media, we should be able to promote ourselves.

As for your last paragraph, without a doubt some of the games are enjoying a great deal of success.  I stated in another comment, I don't know if they are bringing in new people but they are certainly rolling out updates.

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@rmsadkri ·
Cryptobrewmaster has the option to login with google accounts which can be considered innovative. I am not a fan of the game after their recent updates but at least they are trying to onboard new users.

I wonder what will happen to hive. I am worried that the very decentralized nature of the governance team will ruin the possibility to market it properly if they do not provide enough opportunity for the second layer 

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@sanjeevm ·
> There was a conscious effort to fund it by the core team. This likely provided confidence to smaller account who followed suit.

I think, this is a very important step by the Leo team and the focus is spot on. If other community will follow this trail, then they can also get success. 

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@scholaris ·
LeoFinance's targeted approach definitely puts it at an advantage over the HIVE.  Single-group, single-focus commitments by the entire LEO community will outpace the larger HIVE organization by far.  

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@shebe ·
Exactly...
> Leofinance.io does not look like anything else on Hive. It is a UI built from the ground up. If we look at most of the tribes, they are still using the old Steemit.com clone.

I don't wanna look at sites which looks like sites from nineties (I'm too old, oh god ;-))

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@shortsegments · (edited)
Hi
This is a detailed and bold analysis of the situation, which is brave and I think balanced. I think the backend and Frontend responsibilities you point out are important, because Hive as the first layer has a different focus then Leo as a second layer. 

But at the same time is also a GUI and a community, and that’s what people see, the front end. People’s frustrations with the perceived pace of GUI development probably under appreciates the backend work as you have so fairly pointed out, to give credit where it’s due. But it’s the GUI that people see, and they only think about the backend when it doesn’t work. 

Additionally, the community relies on the leadership to keep us relevant and support bold moves. All project leaders have a role in keeping the project in the public eye directly with press releases or indirectly with PR members and promoting project involvement in big shifts in the industry. DeFi has been a big shift this year and it would be good for Hive to be involved. Leadership can produce opportunities or support them with PR and investment. An example is Wrapped Hive on Uniswap. I think it was a good project for reasons which include expose Hive to Ethereum and some potential price appreciation and community direct involvement with DeFi and that is a two way street bringing investors and potentially developers to this space.

Nice post,
@shortsegments

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@st8z ·
I have asked a similar question before but this is the answer:

In older posts you often read about SMT'S and if I understand it correctly, they are 2nd Layer Tokens like Leo.

Are these tokens now realized by hive-engine and is it planned to continue working on this basis in the long run or is it expected that this topic will be included in the 1st Layer?

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@taskmaster4450le ·
SMTs are actually a base layer token.  They were planned to operate the same as HIVE.  Thus, all SMT transactions would enjoy the same decentralized nature of HIVE, i.e. they would operate on the witness nodes.  The tokens would also be limited to exactly what HIVE is and perform the same functions.  There would be no smart contracts so DeFi and NFTs are out.  It would all follow the PoB reward system.

Hive-Engine uses smart contracts.  However, the drawback there is that the layer 2 solution is not decentralized.  That is what has some people nervous.  All the data is located on one server (backed up I am sure but only one software set being run).  I think what people are looking for is a decentralized smart contract system at the second layer.  At least that is what Blocktrades is proposing.

We might end up seeing both, SMTs and the second layer smart contract and let developers decide what they want.  Hive-engine might also come out with a decentralized platform that allows others to run nodes.

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@theycallmedan · (edited)
"Leo is doing amazing, how can Hive do that?" I have to giggle when I read statements like this I see from time to time recently. The answer is obvious, we need 1000 more Leo's! ;)

If there were zero popular dapps on ETH, how much would ETH be? Does ETH need to copy what YFI is doing to capture value? Or does it need to make it easier for more YFI's to be created. I think the answers are obvious.

I've been saying tokenized communities are the future. We make a decentrealized, streamlined way to create them that dosen't cost a lot to spin up, and then we will start to see more Leos. Make it easier for more Leo's to be created.
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@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.37
We are in agreement there.  Much of what is discussed is not needed for Hive but for the different communities.

>The answer is obvious, we need 1000 more Leo's! ;)

I will settle for a handful to start.  Work out way up to a dozen and see where we stand.

The comparison to Ethereum actually makes sense to me.  That chain is providing a model to follow.  All the negatives of that chain get exposed since they are technical in nature.  That is why Hive needs to be the best technology offering a stable foundation for all that is built upon it.

After that, it is build away.  Also, this is where it makes sense to market.  Take some of these applications and pull people to them.  The games, 3Speak, some of the communities, they have things to offer to people.

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@urun ·
smaller community (leadership) can work more efficiently + can try things out, without huge walls. 

That's why I think hive should be mid to long-term only a gas/gov token. Rewarding works are more efficient with platform tokens. 

Leo is such a good example and success story of how it can work. And also a Blueprint.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
That is true but the importance, in my opinion, if keeping the base layer reward system is for token distribution.  Since Hive is used for governance, we want that spread out to as many people as possible.

If there were some changes like getting rid of the dusting, that could help smaller accounts be upvoted for their comments, providing more Hive for them.

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@urun ·
Agree. 

But at some point, people that really care about gov will buy that tokens back from the market. Most people only want to use the platform ( maybe not current users but at some point) and don't care about the government.

So Endgame would be less/no rewards in hive + Social media tokens.

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@vimukthi ·
@ecency has been accomplishing some amazing things under the radar. I wasn't paying enough attention and I finally started using the desktop app. It turns out @ecency has reached Alexa Top 1000 in Venezuela.

https://images.hive.blog/0x0/https://images.ecency.com/DQmV1pCRuPs9nDS4Tudxh6rMmxBBAmosgGg4uGNkutE1vN5/image.png

HIVE on the base layer has faced a tragedy go the commons situation where nobody is taking the lead and doing something unique. @splinterlands accomplished much going their own way doing their own thing. @peakd created  great general interface. @dapplr started working on som esleek designs. Projects like @leofinance and @ecency @threespeak started doing their own thing while @dbuzz and @quello tried to imitate existing social media. All of these efforts payed off for each front end. HIVE mostly just grew as a side effect of all of that. 

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@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.02
What you say is true.  However, if all those projects were growing, in terms of users, all of hive would be growing.

The challenge is, from the user perspective, they are just dividing up what is already here.  

Without newer people, we are stuck spinning our wheels.  It does not seem that too many projects are successful at bringing on board newer users.

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vote details (1)
@vimukthi ·
I think there is a massive level of friction for user onboarding. We have been steadily climbing in Alexa Rankings despite user growth being long. We have to assume that people became interested enough in the platform; but not enough to warrant a signup and having a blockchain account. 

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@wiseagent ·
> Leo has probably more engagement that any other interface on Hive. Why is that? Perhaps it is the change in the reward curve, but that is a debatable point.

I think that the fact that the LEO community is focused on a type of common topic that is so popular and necessary in the lives of all of us, ends up making things easier. At Hive, everything is very plural and - *unfortunately* - often without much engagement.

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vote details (2)
@shtup ·
The curve is not helping. Also, the 2-cent payout threshold makes it impossible for anyone with less than about 5000 HP to reward any comment or post alone.
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@eirik ·
Do you know @dustsweeper?

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@erikah ·
That's exactly what my post was about two days ago. That kills rewarding comments and also not encouraging engagement at all. Not to mention rewarding posts after a certain time.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
I would say your assessment is correct.  It is, at a minimum, a piece of the puzzle.

We need to get rid of the dusting.  Micropayments are something that Hive can facilitate since there are no direct transaction costs.  Why do you bar that feature from comments?

It makes no sense.

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@taskmaster4450le ·
The targeted focus certainly helps.  Hive does have the hindrance of being a feeder system for everything.

That said, what about the other communities/tribes.  A lot of them are still operating like they did almost 2 years ago.  

To me, that is the crux of the problem.  There is little to no development which is giving the users little to be excited about.  This, in turn, creates the same experience on a daily basis, never changing over time.

In this era, new features need to be added or else people get bored.  

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@yogajill ·
$0.02
I hadca really good feeling about LEO right from the start. And, still do. Tho am a total noob to all things blockchain and crypto.  So, my question may seem silly but please bear with me!  @taskmaster4450, do you know if there's a way for me to convert HIVE to LEO?  Would love to build up my stack a little if i can. :)
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vote details (3)
@taskmaster4450le ·
$0.02
Hi @yogajill.

Leodex.io

Use that site to load your HIVE onto there.  Then you can use the hive.swap to buy LEO.

LEO is a hive-engine token.  It is best to use Leodex because it is much less the fee to convert your tokens.

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@yogajill ·
Sweet. I'll check that out. Thank-you!
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