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Steem Bandwidth - User Experience Issue by timcliff

View this thread on: hive.blogpeakd.comecency.com
· @timcliff · (edited)
$518.78
Steem Bandwidth - User Experience Issue
![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmXCQMKWDu7TD6sWk8mAcnDzpmDwJjJGjCf6muoEBS8cgK/image.png)

## The Cost of the Blockchain

Steem is an amazing blockchain, in that it allows near-instant (three second) confirmations and charges zero fees for transactions. Anyone can sign up for an account, and use the blockchain to post their content, vote on stuff they like, and **earn rewards** - all for free!

There is a cost for all of this however. Witnesses, exchanges, and developers must pay to run the computers that power the blockchain and the applications that run on top of it. As the blockchain grows in size, the cost for running these servers increases.

Witnesses are paid by the blockchain to run their servers - so they can afford the increased costs. Developers and exchanges are not paid however, so they must cover these expenses out of pocket. If the price to run a Steem blockchain node becomes too high, exchanges and third-party developers are less likely to participate.

## Bandwidth Prevents Unlimited Growth

Luckily, the Steem blockchain has a way to keep these costs under control. That control mechanism is bandwidth.

![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmUuekqYtPv9yHDocBSCVsroNKYA52T9jWMjArS2zqELYB/image.png)
[Source: [Steem bluepaper](https://steem.io/steem-bluepaper.pdf)]

## How Bandwidth Works

Everything you do (posting, voting, commenting, etc.) will consume a small amount of bandwidth. Every user has a limited amount of bandwidth to use each week. Users with more Steem Power will have a higher bandwidth allowance.

You can check how much bandwidth you currently have based on the current limit at:
https://steemd.com/@youraccount

Normally everyone's bandwidth allowance is quite high, and users are able to use the network freely without any interruptions. Sometimes when the blockchain becomes busy however (due to heavy use), everyone's individual allowances may go down until the network becomes less busy.

## Bandwidth Errors

The Steem network has gotten very busy recently with all the increased use, so some users are occasionally bumping into these limits.

The more transactions a user does, the less bandwidth they will have left (until it recharges). If they pass their limit, or the network gets busy and their limit is reduced - they may be unable to transact until the limit is raised, or their bandwidth recharges.

^ This will primarly affect users with a small amount of Steem Power.

If you get an error that you have exceeded your bandwidth allowance, it is normally best to just wait (an hour or two) and try again when it is less busy. Usually if you wait and try again later, the transaction should go through.

If you want to increase your bandwidth allowance, you also have the option to purchase more Steem Power for your account through an exchange such as BlockTrades.us.

## Potential Changes Being Discussed

### Increasing Everyone's Bandwidth Limits

Witnesses have the option increase their maximum block size, which will give everyone in the network more bandwidth. There are a lot of people (myself included) who have proposed doing this, but there is some concern that doing so will allow a large increase in spam, as well as raise the costs of running servers for exchanges and third-party developers.

^ Because of this, there is not yet consensus on raising the bandwidth allowances

The Steemit dev team has been working on [AppBase](https://steemit.com/performance/@steemitblog/performance-and-scalability-updates) as well as several other performance enhancements, which should help reduce the requirements for third-party developers and exchanges.

^ Once these changes are done, we will likely be in a lot better position to start raising the bandwidth allowances.

### Update to the Bandwidth Algorithm

There is [GitHub issue 1800](https://github.com/steemit/steem/issues/1800) open to optimize the bandwidth algorithm. This is one update that I think will do a lot of good. If we can come up with a more optimal way to divvy up our limited resource (bandwidth) so that regular users can more freely transact - this would be the best way to improve the situation.

I also think that as part of this change, it will be important to provide a clear definition for all users about what the bandwidth limits and rules are, so users can know how many transactions (of each type - sending coins, posting, voting, etc.) are allowed based on the amount of Steem Power they hold.

### Education

No matter how much tweaking we do to the system - there is going to be a limit somewhere, and some users will likely run into it at some point. Based on this, of the key things we can do is educate users about how bandwidth works, so that they are not surprised if they run into limitations.

#### The keys right now are to know that:
- Every user has a limited amount of bandwidth.
- Most of the time this should not affect users.
- Sometimes (usually during busy times), users may run into limits if they have been transacting a lot.
- If users wait for a little while, their bandwidth should recharge, or their limit will go back up.
- Users also have the option to buy more SP if they want increased limits.

## Discussion Welcome

There is a lot of discussion among the witnesses and Steemit dev team about how to best handle bandwidth. Input from the community and stakeholders is important. Please share your thoughts in the comments below.

### Some points of discussion:
- Do you think new users should have as much bandwidth as they want?
- Do you think that having users pay to have additional bandwidth (by powering up more SP) after they pass a certain point is reasonable?
- Do you think witnesses should increase their block size now, or wait for AppBase and other optimizations first?
- At what point do you think a reasonable limit for new users to be limited?
- What changes could be made to the bandwidth formula to better allocate bandwidth across the users?
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@abelpasai ·
I love photography, I happen to be in a plant tunnel, I try to follow you. Although not as beautiful as you,
I really like your post @timcliff.
![image](https://img.esteem.ws/etyxw4wase.jpg)
πŸ‘  
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@ace108 ·
$0.59
Thanks for the info. I never knew bandwidth sort of equates to power but than again that's also in real life. With more power (real, virtual, monetary, or otherwise), your get more done. :-)
πŸ‘  
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@agusscout ·
$0.44
I also have experienced this friend, here I try to post my writing and comments my friend, apparently my limit sydah out. So I wait about 3 hours I just open again steemit and I can again make a comment. Thank you guys, with the knowledge you give this can help me in using my bandwidth capacity. It's great to be friends with you.
πŸ‘  
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@alejandro12 ·
Helpful post, thanks for sharing, I didn’t understand how it works until now, thank you for an interesting post. Stay blessed. Upvote and resteem.
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@allesia ·
I did not know until now what it means steem bandwidth
πŸ‘  
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@alokkoshal ·
The information just went over my head as I am not use to technical part. Though I know it's important so I am ur fan😊
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@alyssas ·
$0.07
I don't think my bandwidth level has ever gone below 70% - but I tend to log in just for an hour or so, before logging out for the day.
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@anakur ·
$9.71
steemd.com is down I guess or is working with errors as it shows 0% bandwidth and reputation score at 25 for all users. 


![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdYYsFSDFaQDVEmQKZx8EmQ5xkEjmdpSCLH3RadsttJfN/image.png)

![](https://steemitimages.com/DQmcBD7QARu6y5jUWwwZtbgvDQLUn1Dv2Hjfavfz3BbLVSy/image.png)
πŸ‘  ,
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@vnyrox ·
Steemd is not updating database of steemit users there must be a glitch i was facing that too @anakur
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@anakur ·
$8.97
Yep. It is still stuck.
πŸ‘  ,
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@awijuny ·
I like your posts and I want to make the guidance in the field of steemit, but I can for that reason, because I am new disteem, may I become your friend, best regards to you and all
πŸ‘  
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@bashadow ·
First, steemit needs to make a determination "Are Bots" users? If they are not users, ie: providing content, bring positiveness to steemit, improving the steemit experience, bring growth to steemit. If not when a threshold limit is reached, the ability for bots to do anything at all, (unfortunately this would include @cheetah) then they are shut out of the system. The threshold level being set by the witnesses, something like a new user bandwidth becoming less than 2 times there vote power, 256kb or thereabouts, and all bot's get the boot for the next 6 hours.

Restrict the useless before restricting the users.  This would also include manual re-steem blogs.
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@timcliff ·
The blockchain does not distinguish between human and bot users, nor does it have mechanisms to do so.
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@bashadow ·
$0.20
oh well scratch that suggestion then.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@bashirahmeddukku ·
Such an awsome post and a perfect view..we hope to see more and more improvement this year..finally,oh yes..new users should have as much bandwidth as they want,beacuse its a matter of  demand and supply..
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@biffybirdcam ·
$5.09
Iv hit the bandwidth wall every day for the past week.

Yeah, I get it. I am new user with really low Steem Power and I post a ton of content. Atleast I can say that none of it whatsoever is spam.

When i first ran into this issue i was dumbfounded, but quickly did some reading and learned everything you summarized in this informative post.

Since i don't plan on buying any Steem Power, waiting is what I do.

I have noticed the bandwidth allowances drop dramatically from 12Mb right now at midnight on Tuesday EST to around 150 kb or less during the morning hours. I theorize its the incredible amount of accounts and spam bots from the Asian and Indian nations that load the system to capacity.

Then, when they are working the network is solid. There definitely seems to be a larger load on the system during the morning and mid day hours for the Eastern United States.

Oh well. Steem is for everyone!
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vote details (5)
@whatrokusays ·
$0.33
I just started my account today. When I was about to get my official password for Steemit, the sign up page said I couldn't log in because my bandwidth was exceeded.

That was very strange to me because I hadn't even logged into Steemit for the first time yet!

After reading your post here though @biffybirdcam, things now make sense.

I probably couldn't log into the system for the first time because it was too early in the day. I most likely got that error message because the bandwidth was overworked (or pirated) by too many other accounts or spam bots.

While I understand that everyone has to work their way up the totem pole in order to get more bandwidth and to up their Steem Power, this news is still mildly discouraging to hear.

For newbies like me, the climb up the Steemit ladder will be a slow one ... but I am more than willing to be patient. I am also happy to start my 2018 journey here and can't wait to see where it will lead.
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@timcliff ·
That is odd actually. Do you remember what error you got? It could have been an unrelated issue as part of the signup process.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@bilqis07 ·
hello @timcliff please you vote me and follow https://steemit.com/photography/@bilqis07/baneng-hutan-88e64e205ccdf
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@blog-beginner ·
I am of the opinion that the bandwidth should not be increased further. If increased further we will see more useless posts by reward greedy people and the overall content quality will be degraded. 
Many times I wonder why my up-vote doesn't pay anything to the author. I see the rewards same before and after the post.
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@casberp ·
I think the standard SP needed to new users work without problems when overall limit go down, is 100, based in [this little post](https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@casberp/bandwidth-problem-suggestion-pt-en)
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@ceepee ·
$1.11
Wow, i have been seeing bandwidth on my steemd.com, but never really understood what it was for. Thank you for this. Now i understand bandwidth and how it works on steemit.
In a view of increasing bandwidth for users, i dont think it should be increased. In my opinion, it will be abused.
And as for buying bandwidth after limit has been reached, in my opinion, is not good for the platform. It should be more than buying. I think investing should be emphazised. Steemit platform should be more than just posting to earn, investing should be stressed also.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@christinb ·
This is very helpful information
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@clarkk ·
$0.59
I appreciate alot getting us publicly aware about this with my knowledge,  i think allowing users to have much bandwidth wont be a good idea why because people wont take time to make a good read on post before commenting,upvoting or posting because they know it can easily be gotten ans this will make some irrelevant post get irrelevant commet which is spoiling the image of steemit in general. And sure its reasonable for user to pay so it would be valued and everyone will try making sense with their activities . Changes i suggest is that before one make post or comment, ones activities should be rated on a quick bandwidth rating bar before post just to know how relevant it is..I guess i have made a point and thanks for the info once moreπŸ–’
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@clydemajiklegion ·
i have noticed that the reputations are not going up anymore either.  steemd says higher rep than the pages are showing.   also have all the auto votes stopped?
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@timcliff ·
There are a few pages on Steemit (like the wallet) that are showing 25. Other than that, everything should be working as expected. I have heard that some auto upvote services are down.
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@comrade ·
Thanks for this usual information on bandwidth. In fact, this has become a near daily occurence to me and steemians around me. We have been managing the situation. I follow and upvote you.
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@cranium ·
$3.29
**Excellent article. I was looking for it 5 months ago, when I started and I had problems with bandwidth. You did a very good job - writing this article, it will become useful information for many users.**
>ΠžΡ‚Π»ΠΈΡ‡Π½Π°Ρ ΡΡ‚Π°Ρ‚ΡŒΡ. Π― искал Π΅Π΅ 5 мСсяцСв Π½Π°Π·Π°Π΄, ΠΊΠΎΠ³Π΄Π° Ρ‚ΠΎΠ»ΡŒΠΊΠΎ Π½Π°Ρ‡Π°Π» ΠΈ Ρƒ мСня Π±Ρ‹Π»ΠΈ ΠΏΡ€ΠΎΠ±Π»Π΅ΠΌΡ‹ с пропускной ΡΠΏΠΎΡΠΎΠ±Π½ΠΎΡΡ‚ΡŒΡŽ. Π’Ρ‹ сдСлали ΠΎΡ‡Π΅Π½ΡŒ Π΄ΠΎΠ±Ρ€ΠΎΠ΅ Π΄Π΅Π»ΠΎ - написав эту ΡΡ‚Π°Ρ‚ΡŒΡŽ, ΠΎΠ½Π° станСт ΠΏΠΎΠ»Π΅Π·Π½ΠΎΠΉ ΠΈΠ½Ρ„ΠΎΡ€ΠΌΠ°Ρ†ΠΈΠ΅ΠΉ для ΠΌΠ½ΠΎΠ³ΠΈΡ… ΠΏΠΎΠ»ΡŒΠ·ΠΎΠ²Π°Ρ‚Π΅Π»Π΅ΠΉ.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@cryptoknight12 ·
Steemit is an awesome platform. Thanks for the explanation on how it works!
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@damianpellejero ·
$0.20
I think limiting the weekly bandwidth according to the steem power of the user is a good mechanism to control the steem network. I do not think that it's necessary to consider another parameter. Increasing the block size could be a good option but it is necessary to be careful, particularly in a context where the steem community is growing.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@deemarshall ·
$0.46
I joined in June 2017. I only do 5 posts a day plus many comments and an average of 5 transfers a week as I host contests. My bandwidth has never gone below 96%. It is usually higher.

Judging from my own experiences and interactions with newer users than me, I don't think it is necessary to increase bandwidth for new users. Many are rare users. One post a day is common. I think efforts to increase bandwidth should go either to increases for everyone or to the genuine high users who are bringing value to Steemit without using what I call 'the bot plague'.

Yes, in theory, I do think it's reasonable to ask users to pay. Having said that, I would need to see the details to be sure.

I don't know enough about these issues to comment on your other three questions.

While I am here, I want to thank you for upvoting my posts sometimes. You make my day! I work on my contest and get upvotes valuing Β£0.20 or somesuch amount then your vote comes and it's all worthwhile. Thank you so much.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@dhn0411 ·
$0.11
I’d like to see private  mail and instant messaging.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@diamondray ·
Thanks for the insight
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@diamondray ·
Thanks for the insight
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@dianclasher ·
Thank you for the information
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@dlina-v-metrah ·
Such glitches are a little scary. Stemit declares itself as a platform that can quickly process millions of transactions. But people see that even their several posts or comments platform can not handle.

Trust is easy to lose ...
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@dubem-eu ·
$0.20
Very educative and informative post, I recently ran into this bandwidth issue but thought the steemit website is down only to learn through a friend that he is freely doing his activities on steeemit. After all attempts failed, I simply left it till the next morning and it started working again.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@egodust ·
$0.19
interesting post helps me understand why and what is happening with bandwidth issues I've also been getting this week - so thanks✨
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@emex ·
Thanks for this post, is very educative
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@emmakwisequote ·
$0.19
I was having problem with this issue before. But now i understand why such measure should be put in place. This will present a big challenge to new users like me,because i always want to do more since i find steemit. Investing in steem power as the suggested solution is good,but this does not favoure the new users who only get tokens for their posts. Now to my stand,i think the bandwidth should be increased a bit to help us grow too so that we have more to invest into the system too. God bless steemit.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@enjar ·
$0.39
While you bring up buying more SP to increase limits. Do people leasing SP from others in form of delegations get increased bandwidth while they are leasing? Clearly some users will never use all the bandwidth they have even more so if they are not very active.

I think a bigger limits on new users could increase the amount of spam and more importantly encourage spammers to try and bypass protocols put in place to limit it to 1 free account per person if they are unregulated in terms of bandwidth.
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
$0.06
> While you bring up buying more SP to increase limits. Do people leasing SP from others in form of delegations get increased bandwidth while they are leasing?

Yes. If a user has delegated SP, it gives them the same amount of bandwidth as if it was their own SP.
πŸ‘  
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@eqko ·
$0.39
I think first and foremost, new users need to be made aware that there is such a thing as bandwidth at all. Currently, without any 3rd party site or tool, it is just not clear to see how much you have left. 
Maybe a tooltip or popover screen showing bandwidth left every time you post or comment could help. 

I don’t think having them pay for more bandwidth is the way to go although they have that option available by investing and powering up Steem. Afterall, the beauty of Steemit is that it allows to roll into crypto without initial investment. For me, thats a real strong selling point. 

I’m not sure what the right solution would be, but awareness is certainly key in my opinion.
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
Thanks - I clarified the pay part :)
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@ethanthefighter ·
$0.24
I feel like were going to get more spam with more bandwidth. Also this is kinda interesting to read these kinda of posts cuz it's basically politics in the world of steemit except we can actually can make changes. Pretty cool! (back to the discussion for me there hasn't been a problem. And if we keep it how it is, it will encourage people  to buy more steem power. Which I think helps steemit overall right?
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@timcliff ·
Yes
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@everything-4you · (edited)
$0.21
# yeh i am agreed with this point that new users should have as much bandwidth as they want?
##  because lot of users are the student or have less money in his pocket so they can not pay easily.so if we charge them, they can leave this plateform because in the start they can not earn enough because of less steem power.and if steemit plate form gives the bandwidth as they want it will courage them and they will make more post and introduce it with their social contact.and in this way steemit will grow fastly.
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@evolved08gsr ·
$0.17
Couldn't we also add more witnesses? Wouldn't that also solve the problem of having bandwidth issues? Because more nodes would be getting paid to keep their servers up & running? And by adding more witnesses, the blockchain becomes more secure because we're guaranteeing that there is more distribution of the data?
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
$0.04
That is not how it works. Every server that runs the blockchain software must have it’s own local copy of the blockchain.
πŸ‘  
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@evolved08gsr ·
$0.15
Right.. so more servers getting paid to run a local copy of the blockchain would mean that there are more servers with more capacity (because they can afford to upgrade the RAM / HDD if they're getting paid) ... How is that not how it works?
πŸ‘  
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@extraterrestrial ·
Amazing post my Friend! I more than appreciate your input and tutorial! Individuals like you make Steemit so great and so special! Just the other day I ran out of bandwidth! I want to and I basically try to comment, follow and upvote everyone! I love the Steemit Community! Joining Steemit is one of the very best things that I have ever done for myself! I'm encouraging my Family, Friends and Clients to join this amazing platform! Best Wishes! Light and Love! Great Karma! Blessed 2018! Thanks again for all you do for the great Steemit Community! :)
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@fernandorivera ·
This is very informative! thanks @timcliff
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@fknmayhem ·
$0.30
While I haven’t encountered any issues myself, as a rather low level Steemian, I think the statistical % of users encountering this may be super low and thus we may be in the awesome position to think things through more and come up with a much more advanced solution, than merely raising limits.

I recently found @greer184’s excellent [Proof of Worth](https://steemit.com/steem/@greer184/proof-of-worth-revisited-and-upgraded) concept and I must admit that is an awesome concept. It is a solution which could solve several issues encountered on the platform (think solo whales upvoting particular people to the hilt, etc...) and it could also be tied in with increases in bandwidth (when needed).

When looking at Sola.ai, they charge a _fee_ for posting and each further post within the same day is more expensive. There are also daily login bonuses. Such solution could be part of an initial on boarding period of x days/week or until a certain amount of rewards/PoW/SP is reached, in order to throttle the initial eagerness to earn. EArn because of quantity, not quality.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@flashfiction ·
$0.19
I am really new here, but i have a IT formation. I know a little about these things.

I do NOT think new users should have as much bandwidth as they want, but i also think the limits should be high. I mean, as high as a "regular" user will use for a good start. 

As for paying for additional bandwidth, i think a better solution is to create a way for a user to EARN that bandwidth by POSTING. Not upvoting or commenting, but posting new content that ATTRACTS votes and views.

If the new user just can't get enough followers, viewers or votes for his content, and is just posting a mountain of pictures everyday because of "like, you know", then put a limit there and do not let him cross that limit.

I think that way you incentivate the user to be better in order to advance (a sense of gamification) and, at the same time, attack the problem.

Just my two cents.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@foovler ·
$0.16
I dont want to be dik but a couple of minutes wait wouldnt hurt. Increasing bandwidth is probably least of their worries if they focus on good content. 

Stop voting if you dont have enough. Your vote will likely hold not much weight.

If bandwidth gets increased, more spams, 50 words or less contents will be the norm. I think it will force the new guys to work towards quality.

Id say leave it as is.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@franbel · (edited)
Thank so much for this informative blog brother @timcliff
Keep in touch..
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@gniksivart ·
$0.17
So if we're facing bandwidth issues why is the platform still showing so underutilized? 

Is this a steemit issue and the bandwidth tracker on the site everyone is always talking about showing the steem network?

The one I'm referring to is blocktivity.info
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
The system is still not running at full capacity, but limits are still enforced on individual users to prevent the blockchain from growing too fast.
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@gniksivart ·
$0.15
So basically the chart that shows the bandwidth usage is a half-truth?

Can Steem really claim to have that much bandwidth with it being throttled?

Don't get me wrong I understand beta, and the need for the limits, but I guess to me sharing that chart with people is like sharing the earnings of @jerrybanfield to try and entice new users to join the platform. Yes its's possible one day, but that's not the reality.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@goel.tarun ·
$0.30
How low is the 'low SP' who are more likely to face the bandwidth problem? Under 500?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
It depends on their usage, but most users that are currently being impacted have less than 50 SP.
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@gsari · (edited)
$0.99
I think the steemit ecosystem has a good balance, as it encourages a good mix of influence from both witnesses and the community as a whole as compared to other existing blockchains we know. This "balance" is an important value that must be kept as it mimics the balance of nature.  It's a perfect eco-system, actually the best by far. There should exist a good user feedback mechanism that should help newbies understand if they hit bandwidth limits etc. And educate them so no one gets discouraged from using the system.

Regarding spammers, there should exist a system where the community can vote/flag suspected spammers into a blacklist, which freezes any activity by this account. But they can post only in the "Apologies for Spamming or Steemit's Naughty List" section, to plea with the community to be voted back or else they remain in the naughty list until all funds in this account at one point should be moved back into the reward pool and account eventually gets deleted automatically.

This should be made common knowledge or commandments of steemit to all within the community, as we decentralized the power back to, we the people to decide the fate of suspected "spammers". 

Serial spammers won't stand a chance against the combined efforts of a great community like Steemit.

Steem on!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@hafiz34 ·
$0.15
I had no idea that this "bandwidth" is something to consider. Previously, I faced some problem while interacting with other . Now I think that it might be bandwidth issue. 
Well explained post. I think it will help all the steemit users who had little idea about these. 
πŸ‘  
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@hattaarshavin ·
$0.02
I also experienced the same thing in a few days in @timcliff
thank you
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@honeyletsgo ·
$0.15
ugghhh! finally! my questions are now answered. now I understand. this is an enlightenment for me @timcliff. thank you so much. I casted my vote for you. :)
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
Thanks :)
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@icybc ·
$0.15
I have run into many posts about bandwidth this week, and never thought that there is a limit to it..Yours, by far, is easier to understand the how and why there is a limit.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@ilovedietcoke ·
$0.20
Thank you!  I was just trying to talk a newbie through this issue but I wasn't positive that I was giving correct information or helpful advice.  I can see that I had a reasonably good idea of how it works.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@ilovedietcoke ·
$0.20
Interesting, steemd just showed my bandwidth at 0 despite the fact that it was at 99% about 5 minutes ago AND  I have plenty of SP...I'm hoping it's just glitchy.
πŸ‘  
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@ilovedietcoke ·
It must be glitchy cause it let me post these comments.....weird.
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@ilovedietcoke ·
It's also saying my reputation score is 25....something really strange is going on.
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@inalittlewhile · (edited)
$0.20
That's a ton of info, so thank you @timcliff. 

I agree with bandwith limitation for the purpose of reducing/keeping out spam. 

Question: what about accounts that are inactive, or close to it? Is bandwidth still alotted (saved) for them? 

If so, maybe there could be a bandwidth increase/decrease for accounts at a certain point that's dependent on activity?

Idk. Just a thought. It still doesn't address the issue of raised spam.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@smooth ·
$1.03
> Is bandwidth still alotted (saved) for them?

It is, in the sense that they could come back online and the system would have bandwidth available for them. However, as long as the accounts are inactive, their share is effectively made available to everyone else.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@timcliff · (edited)
$0.06
> what about accounts that are inactive, or close to it? Is bandwidth still alotted (saved) for them?

No, the bandwidth is only looking at the currently active accounts.
πŸ‘  ,
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@iqbalsweden ·
$0.99
I personally also often run out of bandwidth and start limiting it during peak hours by reducing activity. The burden often peaked at night time my region's premier time. The number of users who increased dramatically earlier this year made me unable to do anything other than reading other steemian posts. As there is an uncomfortable bandwidth restriction.
I make sure it's not spam and only comment on a number of accounts that match my interests. at most around 3-5 accounts, but I often lose moment so have to wait tomorrow morning.
I think new users should be post boundaries by generating good content and not meeting traffic during peak hours.
πŸ‘  
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@isnochys ·
$0.12
You don't adress the real issue here.
The bandwidth limit keeps on changing. 
Now I have 350mb. Yesterday evening I had 1mb.
Why does this happen?
To have bandwidth limit is OK. But it should not change during the day. 
This is very frustrating. 
Only post in the quiet hours? Is that the solution? 
So a whale could stop anyone from posting just by clogging up the system with spam.
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
The reason for this is explained in the post.
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@isnochys ·
Sorry, yeah you are right.
But in my opinion it should not change. Fixed amount of bandwidth per SP.
Otherwise whales can censor the system. And users can calculate how much they are using. Otherwise it is just random. 
And with 150kb a  new user can vote 1 time.. And that's it for an hour.
Also if that user has one open order on the internal market, all his bandwidth is gone.
And how ist it calculated?
To this point all I hear is just.. Well lots of activity. But how is it determined?
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@jamzed ·
$0.59
Hey Tim,

> Do you think new users should have as much bandwidth as they want?

No. Definitely no, in normal network condition the limits are good enough to use Steem without any issues. 

> Do you think that having users pay to have additional bandwidth (by powering up more SP) after they pass a certain point is reasonable?

The current model is fair to me, if someone need more bandwith, more SP will solve it.

> Do you think witnesses should increase their block size now, or wait for AppBase and other optimizations first?

I will wait for the algorithm update, because existing one is affecting both sides, the **abusers** and **good users**. The block size change will not solve the issue, because the spammers will also get more power, and we'll have exactly the same situation again.

> What changes could be made to the bandwidth formula to better allocate bandwidth across the users?

Maybe **reputation** parameter?... High reputation usually means that someone is trusted for the Community and abusers never have it high.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jarvie ·
$0.17
Social media on the blockchain is truly fascinating!! 

We never get this kind of peak into the inner workings of the other platforms so this is sometimes way over our heads but still captivating to try to figure out.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jasonbu ·
Bandwidth is there for a reason. It's understandable that there is a limited amount. I don't think that it is unreasonable to have to wait until it increases again before you can perform another transaction. I would think that waiting until the optimizations are in  would be better and less strain on Witnesses. 
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jasonrussell ·
$0.19
I noticed just in the last week that I went from 22GB of bandwidth down to 55mb?!   Why the sudden drop? New accounts? New month?  Just curious how this is calculated!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
The limits can suddenly drop during periods of heavy usage, as described in the post.
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@javisem ·
HelIo! Could say that the bandwidth has limited me a bit, I am new to steemit and there are moments that I start to vote and comment and I do not measure the number of times I do it, I think they are habits of other social networks, thanks for the contribution and for your support within the community, you have won a follower, greetings!
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@jaysermendez ·
$0.20
Before coming to this post, I thought that my reputation went back to 25 and my bandwidth was zero without even using Steemit (I was sleeping). After reading some of the comments in this post, I realized that this is a glitch (hopefully hehehe) and that the stats shown in https://steemd.com are not accurate.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@jbgarrison72 · (edited)
$0.21
<h1>Please do not make any changes to bandwidth.</h1>
Everything is working as it's supposed to already. If people want more bandwidth, they can invest in the system or earn it the hard way by posting quality content and getting rewarded in Steem.
![2018.01.03 Steem Ball.jpg](https://steemitimages.com/DQmWHVaQSTCpEwVKFynCj9cxPz2KnS1MmffoH39szvp15yX/2018.01.03%20Steem%20Ball.jpg)
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@themanwithnoname ·
@jbgarrison72 See my article here for how that can affect new users. https://steemit.com/steemit/@themanwithnoname/delegated-steem-power

 I'm not saying that everything needs to change, but there are ways it could be done differently to involve users in the process more and have more transparency.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jbgarrison72 ·
$0.20
I agree that it could be done differently... my first thought would be to add a clear message right  in the UI for new users informing them they will need to learn and manage their bandwidth until they get more Steem.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@jhezontheroad ·
A good read. Very informative. Thank you for this.
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@jiafui ·
So useful sharing! Seen bandwidth many times on steemd but never know the purpose of bandwidth. Such an enlightening post!
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@joeparys ·
$0.03
Very educational and thank you for sharing! Did not know about this but will now share!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@josecrespo ·
Woo hermano excelente post, muchos Γ©xitos y mucha suerte para tu blog, un saludo desde Venezuela:)
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@karttina ·
$0.10
I am still new to all these.. but sincerely appreciate the sharing.... lot to learn on bandwidth power up etc... for now.. just focus on making sure consistent posting... again. Thank you for the sharing.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@katrina-ariel · (edited)
$1.10
Thanks for this in-depth article! I just posted my own [newbie article](https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@katrina-ariel/the-biggest-mistake-i-made-in-my-1st-day-on-steemit) about bandwidth, having hit a wall earlier today. Luckily, I walked away, did a few things on my ignored to-do list, came back and was powered back up. I'll share your article on my post, since you've done a much better job of explaining the bandwidth issue than myself!
πŸ‘  , , ,
properties (23)
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vote details (4)
@kiaazad ·
$0.57
In my opinion the current bandwidth is plenty. if less bandwidth ends up limiting spam by new users, I'd say even less is better.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@kivsha ·
$1.05
Hi Tim. 
I run into that problem yesterday - I posted a comment with a picture in it, nothing to fancy and heavy, but apparently the network was heavily loaded so It was enough to stop me from doing anything at all in the platform.
Luckily I had some SP waiting so I waited to have some more bandwidth and redeemed it and I got back to acceptable Amount of bandwidth. I have 122 SP and I power up everything I have and yet it happened.

I do think the bandwidth restriction is necessary as there are a lot of spammers trying to earn some upvote with their spammy comments, but - it should be a little higher as it restricts honest users like me when we are commenting or posting photos etc.
I defiantly like that having more SP expands the bandwidth as it will make people invest in the platform instead of cashing out and milking the platform. I power up regularly because I believe in the platform for the long term.

Users with huge bandwidth and SP probably dont need such high amounts - maybe we should limit the upper threshold and spread the reserve to the rest of the users?

And two questions if I may @timcliff:
1. What is the current rate the bandwidth restores if there are no changes to the network's load? You say a week, so it's 100/(7 days * 24 hours* 60 minutes)?
2. May I translate this post to Hebrew and publish it? It's immensely helpful.

Thanks, Nati.
πŸ‘  ,
properties (23)
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vote details (2)
@timcliff ·
The exact limits are not known. It would be really useful information to have :)

Yes, go for it!
πŸ‘  
properties (23)
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vote details (1)
@chireerocks ·
$0.21
That's true, but we know only one thing that, if more Steem Power then more Bandwidth.
πŸ‘  ,
properties (23)
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vote details (2)
@kivsha ·
$1.00
Thanks! who is the person that SHOULD know about the exact limits and restoration? I would try to ask.
πŸ‘  ,
properties (23)
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vote details (2)
@kp138 ·
$0.80
Man, I never understood the bandwidth on Steemd until now! This makes a lot of sense on how the platform works. Just when I thought Steem platform couldn’t get any cooler πŸ˜€
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@ldacey-laforge ·
$0.20
Thanks for shining the light on yet another backroom grey area.

:)

Been very active here since I joined and not run into this issue - wonder if this is because I am in the UK and most users are in America? - idle thought!

Happy Steemit-ing.

xox
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
It is independent of your location. If you aren’t running into the limits, it means that you have enough SP to do the amount of activity you are doing.

The time of day does matter though. If you are doing things when it is less busy, you will have a higher bandwidth allowance.
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@ldacey-laforge ·
Thanks for  clarifying that Sir.

:)

xox
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@looksfarwoman ·
$32.52
I'm a new user and yes, I've encountered the bandwidth limit on a few occasions. Even so, I'm not sure that increasing bandwidth for new users (wonderful though that would be), is necessarily a good thing. Although I'm guilty of popping the occasional meme on my blog, over the last couple of weeks, since joining, I've tried to improve my creativity and curation. Like, I suspect, many people, when I first joined, I thought it would be like other social media platforms ('like', 'share', 'status update' and the usual general trivia). I was delighted to find something challenging with much more depth.

I suspect that extra bandwidth for new Steemians is likely to be wasted on the social media habits we need to,actually, be changing. Much as I would love to have more bandwidth, I'm happy to earn through working hard on creative content and curation. My feed is already clogged with like for like requests for upvotes, pictures (which are unclear if they're original work) and a confusing array of resteeming offers.

Without the ability to filter these out, it's a little time consuming looking for valuable content, which tends to get lost in all the noise. Simple posts can be fun, and I love a good meme as much as next person, but with an unlimited supply of bandwidth, I would think it would only get worse. Of course, this could all be down to the fact I'm still getting to grips with the system, in which case, please disregard. I have absolutely no technical ability, so would have no idea as to what is feasible in terms of changing things.

I hope this is ok?
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (23)
@bornprince ·
Great view!
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@just2random ·
Just to take this a little further, with all the 'new' front-ends bolting onto the blockchain, there are no guarantees people won't just be posting MEME's or photos or whatever. 

And we can't expect them to stick to the Steemit rules of long meaning posts because some might have never heard of Steemit.

Therefore, controlling this bandwidth allocation is the only way we can control the user experience for all Steemians.

And personally,  I only experience bandwidth issues immediately after a payout, and even so, it only takes a few minutes to replenish my allowance.
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@katrina-ariel ·
$12.75
In my opinion (a fresh newbie), these are great thoughts. Steemit excites me because it rewards people for quality content and quality interaction, but I agree with your words here:

"My feed is already clogged with like for like requests for upvotes, pictures (which are unclear if they're original work) and a confusing array of resteeming offers. Without the ability to filter these out, it's a little time consuming looking for valuable content, which tends to get lost in all the noise."

I hit the bandwidth wall this morning, and, looking into it further in this article, it makes sense not to give unlimited posting power to people who haven't proven they are providing good content and being genuine members of the community. I love commenting on people's posts and making new friends, but sometimes I have to work hard to find posts that inspire me. When I do find them, though, I'm often in awe. Thoughtful conversations like these add so much value to the experience.
πŸ‘  , , , , , , ,
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vote details (8)
@looksfarwoman ·
$2.34
Hello you. @katrina-ariel, I'm so glad I'm not alone, thinking this. I've made some amazing friends on here, so the scrolling has proved worth it. I too am awed by some of the incredible content on here, and also inspired. It's so exciting to be a part of this, I don't want to squander the opportunity with trivial posts. I like to see the poets, philosophers, free thinkers and innovators. I want to learn new things and share what I've learned. The money is nice, but I'd have jumped ship from Facebook just for the depth of content alone. I'm hoping that those who are expecting a 'quick buck' by spam posting poor content, either become disillusioned and leave, or, preferably, step up to the plate and unleash their creativity. Great to meet you.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@thedesertartist ·
somehow i have been able to avoid the like for like stuff,.. i have been absent for a few days and it doesnt seem like my steem or bandwidth ever recovers,.. were you able to figure out a solution? my bandwidth seems to be at a standstill and i am still dumbfounded as to how to create more without using bandwidth that stymies my account,.. so frustrating
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@kindagoogly ·
I would like to post, comment and like whenever I feel the need to but you make an interesting point. Perhaps it's time Social Media changed into a deeper and more meaningful experience and we put the days of random posts behind us.
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@littlescribe ·
Wow, this was very well put. And some good points about changing old social media habits.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@mamunkst ·
Good answer @looksfarwoman
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@melvin.etniopal ·
Yesterday I didn't use the Steem blockchain in anyway, but, according to steemd, my bandwith remaining was 0 bytes of 0 bytes...
I agree with the fact that new users should'nt have the same bandwith then established users... but no bandwith at all? I wasn't even able to upvote! This is quite concerning...
πŸ‘  
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@looksfarwoman ·
I think it was quite busy yesterday as quite a few people I spoke to had problems. I don't think that had anything to do with your usage, just too much traffic on the system. Although I'm not completely sure, I'm assuming that's the case.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@sibtainali ·
the bandwidth issue occur many times but after few moments i stop commenting and then refresh the page or it will come back to normal . Else your post are always informative so always keep sharing and best of luck <3

@sibtainali
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@surfyogi ·
Upvote purchasing?
What do we think of this?

It is a way to modify the algo that is currently being used, it modifies the formula, I get that. 

I think Steemit as it is, does not scale. I know that is understood. I know that Communities are on the roadmap. And the sooner the better. I think many of these things are difficult to answer until we see Communities up and running because that will change so much of the experience (hopefully) from the what it is today. I see 10 posts in less than a minute; post content is becoming a real firehose and is impossible for new users to be noticed, and they will get sick of it QUICK, so whatever can be done to patch until it can be better organized to scale, is what I like to think about.
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@yallapapi ·
$0.03
Everything about this is 100% spot on. I hit a bandwidth limit myself yesterday (although it was a bug and not because I was doing too much stuff), and it really made me think, "Am I doing quality actions now or just spamming?"

Really helps you put things in perspective.
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@looksfarwoman ·
I know what you mean. I think it's probably normal to indiscriminately post in our first few days, but then we acclimatise after our initial excitement and begin to see the potential. I imagine we'll continue to evolve and grow over the coming months and I can't wait to see what you'll be posting with your 'new perspective'. I look back on my first posts and resteems, wishing I had a delete option.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@magdnrobinson · (edited)
$0.15
This is super helpful. 
You won't believe me when I said have been on bandwidth limited for the 3rd time. 
People keep sharing posts for me to upvote and sometimes when I tell them I can't cos am on bandwidth, they just simply think am using that as an excuse. 
This is helpful for me. 
Now am sticking my votes to where matters. 
This is super helpful, I am already reading on bandwidth, so this just makes my work easy.
Would write something about this. 
Thank you for sharing..
Upvoted and resteemed
πŸ‘  
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@magnulf ·
$0.06
very nice
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@mamin.daud ·
Great Post!. Interesting Story. I want more of this. Keep it up
by.@mamin.daud
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@mamin.daud ·
Great Post!. Interesting Story. I want more of this. Keep it up
by.@mamin.daud
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@markzuckerbergs ·
yesterday i faced the same problem 
i was commenting on post  suddenly there 
is  error message appears that my bandwidth is  too low 
 but in few minutes 
it raised to 12%.
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@christinb ·
I had the same problem today morning
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@matheusggr ·
$0.59
I'm not an expert. But for the continued growth of the community, I believe that there should be a certain type of restriction of postings to new users, such as 1 post per day, unfortunately who starts as I do, at the beginning gets anxious, and ends up decreasing quality posts to earn more, then over time it is not worth it, limiting the start to 1 or 2 posts daily would be a good way, and also should reward better the beginner users, who bring better content, I believe there is still a gap between whales and new users, even curators trying to soften it, increase voting power and better rewards of voting power, reputation between 35-50, better dividing the rewards of active users, would also be a good way. And the whales should increase already, the gain of the whales are immense in relation to the great community, not that they do not deserve, many work very much for the community, but to increase now, the block size is to show that is why this power, and that the witnesses has this duty and commitment to the community.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@matytan ·
yes i have the same issue, my bandwidth sleeping at night
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@melinda010100 ·
$0.16
I remember having bandwidth issues when I was new to the site, and never understood why. This is very interesting! Thank you...and good luck getting it all sorted!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@mfano ·
Thanks for sharing :)
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@mhmtdr0 ·
$0.20
it is acceptable to show understanding and wait.
but,I can not use steemit between 19-24 hours every evening for 1 week. comment upvote and I can not use any other features. I can only read.
this is ridiculous:
ok be understanding about transferring sbd and steem
but I should be able to use the SteMit blog features


@timcliff
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@mikeycolon · (edited)
Out of curiosity - how would someone go about helping mine the Steem blockchain. I know currently for Bitcoin isn't worth it for the average person.

Plus I hope something in the future can be done to stabilize the network  - as Steemit is going to grow faster than anyone can anticipate. Take a look at the DTube post from the other day.
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@maxg ·
You can't really - or at least, not directly. To mine Steem you need to be elected as a [Witness](https://www.steem.center/index.php?title=Steem_Witness), which takes a lot of work. You can vote for people in the Steemit community that you think are up to the task!
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@mikeycolon ·
Cool - good to know. Thanks for the 411. :D
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@timcliff ·
The Steem blockchain doesn't use mining (Proof of Work). It uses Delegated-Proof-of-Stake, where the witnesses produce the blocks. You can read more about it in the [bluepaper](https://steem.io/steem-bluepaper.pdf).
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@mikeycolon ·
Will do - thanks for the speedy response!
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@mindfreezer ·
i'm also facing bandwidth issue during posting and commenting on some and i think steemit has to solved that issue so it would be a great for steemians

Great post. Hopefully we see some good changes this year@timcliff
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@missrdx ·
Nic
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@mysearchisover ·
$0.20
You REALLY nailed this article. I had some problems earlier today.
πŸ‘  
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@timcliff ·
Thanks!
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@natord ·
$2.90
@looksfarwoman has presented an excellent answer to the first question.

>At what point do you think a reasonable limit for new users to be limited?

It seems to me that the current system does this quite reasonably and balanced. If the user creates high-quality content, his bandwidth increases by itself, with the growth of the SP. Thus, user proves his usefulness and receives more opportunities in the technical plan. However, should pay attention to the fact with the recent changes in exchange rates SBD and Steem the SP growth is very slow. But, the user may at any time change the SBD on Steem to fix this "problem".
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@neander-squirrel ·
Hi there @timcliff,

I've been asked to include a bandwidth warning notification in my [bot's services](https://steemit.com/@ginabot). I was thinking you might be able to tell me how to calculate the bandwidth recovery rate? If I want to know exactly when it is safe to use my account, how would I figure out the waiting time?

I guess this also depends on the traffic but is there a way at all?

Thanks, great post!
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@timcliff ·
It is unfortunately too complicated to calculate without understanding the code. If you are going to search through it, `max_virtual_bandwidth` and `current_reserve_ratio` are the places to start.
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@netuoso ·
$14.90
Go make a new account on Reddit and try to post 3 times in 10 minutes and see what happens. 

Bandwidth limits are sane and good to have for many reasons. I think the UX could be improved by telling users what is going on and an estimated amount of time they will need to wait to post. 

Currently condenser shows very technical errors in some situations. Users don't know what they mean so they feel confused about it all and quit trying. 

Great post. Hopefully we see some good changes this year
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (15)
@bronevik ·
$3.49
Exactly. Sane measures provided user is informed what is goin on.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@valth ·
This is a good point, @netuoso. Giving the new users a reasonably understandable error with an estimated countdown is the least we can do. At least this lets them know what's going in, instead of maybe thinking there's something wrong going on with their account or something like that.
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@wellwell ·
Very good point! And easy to implement. On/off like now it's not good. At least a message when reaching 50% (or something) of Bandwidth can do the job. :)
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@zeinmalik ·
So good,,make your writing, dream is something that definitely get tomorrow, if we always pray and work
properties (22)
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@littlescribe ·
Ummmmm.....no.
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@newlifeabdo ·
great post
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@nikv · (edited)
$0.20
Limiting bandwith teaches newbies to be restrained in their behaviour and should remain that way. I have already had to unfollow new people for posting endless memes, endless resteems and even reposting the same content every few days. There needs to be more awareness on the issue and more ways to limit the spam commenters, especially those who don't upvote your post, make a three word comment and then upvote themselves, even as much as $0.90. If they were forced to upvote whatever they commented on, perhaps the capacity for this behaviour would be diminished more quickly
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@nonameslefttouse ·
$1.00
Hello @timcliff and anyone else who might be able to answer this.

[Using this post as an example](https://steemit.com/funny/@nonameslefttouse/the-biggest-and-greatest-post-in-the-history-of-blogging), I'm wondering if massive image files like that can diminish my bandwidth more than using smaller, lower quality images?  Do these file sizes have an impact?
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@timcliff ·
$1.06
No. Images are not stored on the blockchain, so they will not impact your bandwidth.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@nonameslefttouse ·
Thank you.  I guess I'll just go bigger now.
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@ordosjc ·
$0.15
how valuable was this publication, I had a problem yesterday, an error that did not allow me to publish, but today I am full of bandwidth, I hope it continues like this, thanks for the information that helped me a lot,
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@patrice ·
$11.22
>Do you think new users should have as much bandwidth as they want?

Only if it comes with no free SP or Delegated SP. 

>Do you think that having users pay to have additional bandwidth after they pass a certain point is reasonable?

Not really. I think users need to know the limits up front so they post accordingly. If they need more then investing is an option. 

>What changes could be made to the bandwidth formula to better allocate bandwidth across the users?

I'm wondering about having an increase in bandwidth along with a 'penalty' for  short posts. Such as a Title & a link. But as I write that I realize it will just chase the spammers to the comment section and not solve the problem.
πŸ‘  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@ceepee ·
$1.15
I totally agree with @patrice. Investing should be something that should be stressed and make important on this platform
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@nnnarvaez ·
These are very important issues to address while thinking of solutions.
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@smooth ·
$0.21
> I think users need to know the limits up front so they post accordingly.

I agree and the community can help with this to some extent by sharing their experiences so we can all learn to get a better sense of how much usage is allowable for a given SP level of bandwidth and how  much bumps up against limits.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@penauthor ·
$0.19
A friend of mine complained about this bandwidth issue some days
 ago. I think I'm going to recommend this post to him.

This idea is quite useful to put a hold to the 'hit and run' idea that some want to bring to this platform. at times, a little restriction is necessary
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@phillips93 ·
Hello I have problems with the band limits Thanks for such an interesting post I think you have to work hard to be able to emerge in this great community
properties (22)
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@planetenamek · (edited)
$0.20
I think dynamic bandwidth allocation would be a good idea, but I don't know if it's possible. Many accounts with a large number of SP are intended solely for the storage of SP, or to vote occasionally. These accounts could make their bandwidth available for the most needy accounts. 

There are also thousands of accounts with a little bit of bandwidth but which are completely abandoned. A system to dynamically allocate this unused bandwidth to the most needy would really be a good thing.

Of course this solution creates another problem:"Who will benefit from this dynamic allocation?" and "How do we determine its attribution?"
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
The system actually already works that way today :)
properties (22)
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@preparedwombat ·
$0.20
@timcliff, there’s a typo in the second paragraph
>Witnesses, exchanges, and developers must run pay to run the computers that power the blockchain and the applications that run on top of it.

That first *run* shouldn’t be there.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
Thanks!!
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@preparedwombat · (edited)
$0.39
>Do you think that having users pay to have additional bandwidth after they pass a certain point is reasonable?

Oh, yes, if by *pay* you mean buy more SP.  Especially as SMT’s go mainstream. *Think how that could affect the demand for Steem...*
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@smooth ·
$0.20
Yes, the way you 'pay' for bandwidth on this platform is by holding SP. You don't lose the SP either, you get to keep it (and can cash it out later), but as long as you hold more of it in your account you get a higher bandwidth allowance.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@qurba ·
Amazing post you fren
πŸ‘  
properties (23)
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vote details (1)
@rahulislam ·
I'm another client and yes, I've experienced the data transfer capacity constrain on a couple of events. All things considered, I don't know that expanding data transmission for new clients (awesome however that would be), is fundamentally something worth being thankful for. Despite the fact that I'm blameworthy of popping the intermittent image on my blog, throughout the most recent few weeks, since going along with, I've attempted to enhance my innovativeness and curation. Like, I think, many individuals, when I initially went along with, I figured it would resemble other online networking stages ('like', 'share', 'announcement' and the typical general random data). I was enchanted to discover something testing with considerably more profundity. 

Without the capacity to channel these out, it's a brief period devouring searching for profitable substance, which has a tendency to lose all sense of direction in all the clamor. Straightforward posts can be fun, and I cherish a decent image as much as next individual, however with a boundless supply of data transmission, I would figure it would just deteriorate. Obviously, this could all be down to the reality regardless i'm getting to holds with the framework, in which case, please neglect. I have definitely no specialized capacity, so would have no clue with reference to what is doable regarding evolving things.
![U5ds2rNRvonun8N7SxSZb5F3X4DL7uq.gif](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdbSxykZ3ETcsJf8PTFfbcGFqYVAqPX1Dz3ER4VEPvm8Q/U5ds2rNRvonun8N7SxSZb5F3X4DL7uq.gif)
πŸ‘Ž  
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vote details (1)
@rahulislam ·
$0.16
Much thanks to you such a great amount for this post! I've been battling the data transmission issue this previous week, being the most exceedingly bad when I go ahead before anything else (around 13:00 UTC) and I couldn't work out why it would return speedier in the day (when I was on and feeling anxious to post) instead of during the evening 

purposes of dialog... 

I get it doesn't bode well for new clients to have as much data transmission as they need - however it additionally sets aside opportunity to assemble a following, so stipends must be made. I need to post 4-5 times each day to assemble a collection and to continue intriguing potential perusers. That much ought to be alright without an excessive amount of issue, I think. 

Indeed, having clients pay for extra data transfer capacity is a positive plausibility - however that could likewise predisposition towards huge organizations coming in and assuming control with their infomercials and other publicizing.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@rball8970 ·
$0.19
Thank you @timcliff I have been experiencing the bandwidth issues you described, and have been curious as to the exact cause. I figured it was mostly tied to high activity, but was not sure. No body seemed to know! I'll be following
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@reticwolf ·
$0.20
thank you for posting this. i have been trying to find more information about this platform and you have helped me out. i look forward to more posts and information about how this all works
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@robertoueti ·
$0.05
I don't know if it's possible or even if that could help, but I guess if we increase the quantity of primarly witness. A lot of brazilians newbies are having problems with that also.
If we can increase the quantity of witnesses that will be helpfull.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@robinsoncaiso ·
I believe the reality that new users need to'nt have the identical bandwith then mounted customers... but no bandwith in any respect? I wasn't even capable of upvote! this is quite regarding...
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@roji.abraham ·
@timcliff - Informative post. I really haven't encountered bandwidth issues on steem ever. However, if increasing block sizes is a solution, won't there be a limit ot that sometime or later in the future? I'm yet to grasp how limiting bandwidth of new users will help though (they should be the ones with relative les usage, isnt it so?)
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@rondras ·
$0.16
I am still relatively new to steemit, but it has happened to me already, that my bandwidth was too Low. This came a bit unexpected and for some reason my available amount was even in the negative territory. I guess this was related to the fact that the network was quite busy.

I have wondered If it would be possible to take some kind of a temporary loan, which at least allows some minor transactions such as upvotes. Maybe against some SP costs.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@sanjeevm · (edited)
$1.92
One important aspect that affects the bandwidth is that new users are writing too many posts to increase the reputation. There is a contrary belief that if their reputation is more people notice them and they earn a decent amount from the posts. This is not very true, and people need to be educated about this. So could there be something done on this ? 

WE have started a charity bot called @thehumanbot to educate people and challenge people to write original and less. Its being functional for couple of months and there is a long way to go. But as a witness, do you think, there could be better solutions for this ?
πŸ‘  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
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vote details (37)
@charitybot ·
Someone called me?

In all seriousness I think many new users either skip over the faq, or see how much other people get when they're upvoted, and try to blanket the website with comments in an attempt to get upvotes. I think by design the time spent posting in every thread possible is worthwhile for some to try and snag a few pennies worth, and if punishing such posts actually costs something to do then it will rarely happen. Also I suspect that perhaps due to which languages are spoken by high powered users then there are many who are unable to communicate in their native language in any threads that would be economically worthwhile, and so the quality of their post simply cannot be that high because it is not their primary language.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@wellwell ·
Good points. I find the language barrier very challenging for me, as you said it's very important to speak perfectly well, naturally well or unfortunately the perceived quality of your post go down to the hell. :)
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@timcliff ·
It is a good question. I don't have a solution, but it is something that should be discussed.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@sarah249 ·
This is great. i am new to steem i have not run into any steem bandwidth issues yet.
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@sco ·
I have no problem with the bandwith allowance as it is. Mine was always above 90%, I have no idea what you have to do to bump into the limit^^
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@sibtainali ·
the bandwidth issue occur many times but after few moments i stop commenting and then refresh the page or it will come back to normal . Else your post are always informative so always keep sharing and best of luck <3

@sibtainali
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@solarguy ·
$0.19
Well said sir..  Really, blasting this out to the crypto world.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@solynise ·
$0.60
Nice info... Since last month I joined this platform I must say I ve encountered hindrance at times posting, with this post @timcliff I now understand reason why (bandwidth limit). 
Answering to some of the questions: I would say, it wouldnt be necessary to increase the bandwidth limit for new members or anyone, reason  is to leave the challenge level of good and quality posts, comments and worth upvoted high because it's limited unlike other social media platforms where u can post anything and get million likes.
Secondly, I wouldn't support the idea for steemians to pay for bandwidth, because this is one of the pride we steemians have speaking with people on other platforms, Steemit is free, no charges, all u need is quality posts and discussions, and your sure of your rewards.
Thirdly, I strongly subscribe to the idea of creating awareness to steemians on the limit number of bandwidth one has a day before it recharges, so as to apply prudence.
Lastly,  I would like to suggest we have more steemians educating newbies on bandwidth limitations so they are not as connfused as I was when it happened to me.. Smiles. @timcliff  More grace in your wonderful efforts in seeing to the progress of steemians Steem and Steemit, God bless
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@sustainablyyours ·
This was a great article! You took a topic that I didn't understand and was too intimidated to look up, and you explained it very concisely so that even I could understand it.

I have never bumped into my bandwidth limit, but I've read about others who have. I didn't have a clue why it would happen, and I assumed that it was a flaw in the system. After reading your post, I realize that it is actually an intentional and *helpful* feature. The more I learn about the Steem blockchain and Steemit platform, the more I realize how awesome it is! It is obvious that a lot of planning went into making sure this works for the long haul. 

I think I like the bandwidth limit. A few people having to wait a little bit to post again is a  perfectly acceptable if it means that we keep spam from taking over the platform. I'm not gonna lie: I moved over to Steemit for the chance to make money, but what kept me here all of the deep, meaningful content.
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@talanhorne ·
$0.41
I have never come close to using up my bandwidth, mostly because I keep a careful eye on my Voting Power (VP), and *that* diminishes much faster than bandwidth does (at least in my case).

Limiting bandwidth on new accounts is likely a good idea, as new accounts are more likely to be spambots or inexperienced users who think they can upvote everything infinitely.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@talltim ·
$3.30
Bandwidth limit is a similar mechanism like fees in the Bitcoin system.

It prevents a finite resource being exploited. *(Tragedy of the Commons)*

Though I question the longer-term viability of a platform where reward-pool gaming is trivial and rampant. No promotional campaign or UI fixes will mediate that.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@thatanimesnob ·
$0.21
Yeah I noticed that when I powered down to 1 unit of steem and was wondering why I couldn't post or comment.

What I am wondering now is the number below my SP. It was +17000 when I joined and now it's +9000. Why is it dropping as my SP grows. Why???
πŸ‘  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@timcliff ·
The bandwidth requirements are based on the network usage. They will change based on the activity of other users.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@theguruasia ·
$0.39
@timcliff,
Wow now I understood it well. I got this trouble few times in last coupe of days! Now I got a clear idea about the problem. Thank you very much for sharing this great article and please tell me, is there any valuable source to get step by step guidance to add a node to STEEM blockchain! I have enough resources and I think I can add a small processing power to the blockchain as well!

Cheers~
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
Talk to me in steemit chat
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@theguruasia ·
$0.20
@timcliff,
Sure I am coming!

Cheers~
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@thekittygirl ·
$0.15
I have been here for three-and-a-half months and never had an issue with bandwidth. Granted, I do Power-Up every chance I get, but it was never an issue before my first Power-Up, even on days where I made four posts per day PLUS comments & upvotes on others. Bravo!
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@themanwithnoname ·
$0.21
Thanks for posting this. I was about to tag you in the article I wrote about this today. https://steemit.com/steem/@themanwithnoname/not-enough-bandwidth

One of the things that could help is to have more information for the user account embedded into the Steem profile. The link to the Steemd information is good, but that could be incorporated into the normal profile (when you click on your picture in the upper-right).

It's difficult to know where all the different extra tools and info are located. Incorporating them into Steem-proper will help improve the user experience. Than rather than feeling locked out, users will be able to see how much bandwidth/energy they have left.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@tryskele ·
$0.10
I completely understand most of the reason why. What I don't understand is even if I don't touch my account for 12 hours or more I am negative bandwidth. I would think it would regenerate during that time. It isn't. What it seems like is because my bandwidth is not being used at that time it's being taken by someone else.  I've been told that doesn't happen. Since I have started having this issue 3 days ago, I have not gone over 75% on my bandwidth.  That was last night about 8pm MT then I get home this morning 630am MT I checked Steemd.com first and I was at 25%   I wonder how much bandwidth is taken up by bots? Especially the pay ones?  I thought that was 'frowned' upon to do that.  As I have mentioned before it had been suggested to me 1 post per day with 5 comments/upvotes (for my 'lvl') and I cannot do that currently.  Currently I can get 1 post up accept 1 or 2 follows and maybe 1 comment. I know post and comment size have to do with the amount of bandwidth used, but we should be able to keep that basic formula. Then as we grow we can start investing in ourselves. As it stands now we're dead in the water. There is almost no way to grow when you do 1 post a day and cannot comment.  Since this a world wide platform, is there anytime truly that is not a peak time?  I'm not mad by any means. I am frustrated and looking for a way to help find an answer to solve the issue at hand.  What I don't know I ask.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@thx1138 · (edited)
This was confusing me too. Because I was just looking at the percent available. The thing is, percentage of what? well it turns out, percentage of "your Limit" which itself changes depending on total users activity. Right under your percentage it will say, kb of kb. Right now mine says 16.5kb of 58kb. A few hours ago it was 16.5kb of 62kb. So the percentage changed without my usage changing.
I have been wondering who was going to keep expanding servers to keep up with the growth
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@timcliff ·
See my reply to the comment right above.
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@timcliff ·
$0.10
Your usage is currently measured over a period of a week, so even if you are not very active today - lots of activity earlier in the 7 day period would cause you to be low.

Your allowance goes up and down too, depending on the overall network use. During times when it is less busy you will have a higher allowance, which would allow you to post and comment during those times even if you are limited during periods of higher use.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@chireerocks ·
*This is really interesting to hear, is there any relation between the Steem Power and Bandwidth.*

***Stay Blessed.***
πŸ‘  
properties (23)
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vote details (1)
@tryskele ·
$0.10
I do understand that. On my off days yes I am more active interacting. I had been posting my daily post when I get home from work and that is when I have started having the issue.   So the network is has gotten busy currently at a time it previously wasn't is why I am being affected the way I am.    Thank you @timcliff
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@uwelang ·
In a nutshell I think it is good that bandwidth is limited to prevent unlimited growth. We have enough spammers here. 

My answers:
Do you think new users should have as much bandwidth as they want? **Please No!**
Do you think that having users pay to have additional bandwidth (by powering up more SP) after they pass a certain point is reasonable? **Yes, would totally support that!**
Do you think witnesses should increase their block size now, or wait for AppBase and other optimizations first? **Waiting**
At what point do you think a reasonable limit for new users to be limited? **You mean when they should get more bandwidth? 500 SP I would suggest with the option of paying earlier for more if required**
What changes could be made to the bandwidth formula to better allocate bandwidth across the users? **No idea - am no techie lol**

Thanks for all you do and that you involve the community @timcliff
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@valth ·
$1.20
Thanks for keeping us informed with the current ongoing discussions of the witnesses and the Steem dev team, @timcliff. I can see why this is a much debated issue, and I get why some of you witnesses are skeptical to increasing the bandwidth, since it could easily lead to less interest by exchanges, as well as more spam. 

I don't really think new users will be annoyed by bandwidth limitations if they 1) know it's there before they hit it, and 2) they are able to preform a reasonable amount of transactions before they hit the limit. 

About how many transactions would a brand new users have to do before getting limited?
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@timcliff ·
$0.27
That last part is a really important question. Unfortunately the answer right now is we don’t know. It depends on a lot of factors, and it changes.

Defining what the limits are is a really important part of this to get right IMO.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@valth ·
$0.60
Oh, that makes it really complicated then. Would it be possible for someone to create an app/website that could display something like "current number of available transactions"? Or is this a metric that is too complex to display in such a manner?
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@verbaldancing ·
This is a personal negative bandwith record that I have recorded ;-)

![A97EA152-CA6D-4F3F-8703-25404D03C9AE.png](https://steemitimages.com/DQmNmUfnNAbh5tuyf4SzPM58Mncu7uzGEhMdVZ1JK4y8iV9/A97EA152-CA6D-4F3F-8703-25404D03C9AE.png)
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@vikasjaat ·
Rate limiting bandwidth is a good way to abuse spammers. Such limit will stop them to do nonsenses over here. I think steem has to allocate a fix percent of bandwidth to users instead of dynamically allocating them (during busy hours)

I have few more questions. I want to develop few applications on top of steem blockchain but I am not developer but I know how website works. If you are free then please respond me 
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@timcliff ·
If you are not a developer, you would probably have a difficult time developing blockchain applications.
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@intelliguy ·
$0.15
Your presence and comment is hoped for my my latest blog where you have a "reserved spot". :)
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@viking-ventures ·
$1.19
Thank you *so* much for this post! I've been fighting the bandwidth issue this past week, being the worst when I come on first thing in the morning (about 13:00 UTC) and I couldn't work out why it would come back faster in the day (when I was on and chomping at the bit to post) rather than at night (when I wasn't on at all...) 

points of discussion... 
I guess it doesn't make sense for new users to have as much bandwidth as they want - though it also takes time to build a following, so allowances must be made. I want to post 4-5 times a day to build a repertoire and to keep interesting potential readers. That much should be okay without too much hassle, I think. 

Yes, having users pay for additional bandwidth is a definite possibility - though that could also bias towards big companies coming in and taking over with their infomercials and other advertising. 

Those are my thoughts, anyway. 
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15977285_760850244069552_1419606627788947419_n.jpg?oh=0bf12bdba29a8fe7719ff06341abf914&amp;oe=5ABB483C &nbsp;</p>
πŸ‘  , ,
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vote details (3)
@vladivostok ·
$0.14
I learned a lot from this post, seem to be reading as many of these types of educational posts for newbies that I can lately. Thanks for making it so easy to understand, I will follow for future knowledge made simple
πŸ‘  
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@vnyrox ·
$0.20
Dammn so that was a issue and i was wondering what i've done. Even though i read some article about that it says you must have pissed a whale and he flagged you, i was like wtf πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ , glad to know real issue thanks for the post @timcliff
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@waqarsabir786 ·
i'm also facing bandwidth issue during posting and commenting on some and i think steemit has to solved that issue so it would be a great for steemians
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@weaselhouse ·
$0.20
Bandwidth limits are a good idea so long as they're reasonable. I spent my day 1 on Steemit writing articles and interacting with the community.

5 articles in I hit my cap. Thankfully I received 14.5 delegated Steem Power and was able to continue using the platform. Without that delegation it might have turned me off the platform day 1.

I think the limits are a great idea for controlling spam, but they also need to be applied in a manner that won't hurt the experiences of new users.
πŸ‘  ,
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vote details (2)
@weaselhouse ·
$0.15
@timcliff - I know this post is 17 days old, and it's not likely to get much more attention.  Nonetheless, just wanted to add my 2 cents here.

The bandwidth limit is massively problematic for new users.  Every morning I become completely unable to post after upvoting one or two posts.  The rest of the day I'm fine.

I think we'd be better off with a daily bandwidth allocation, rather than this rapidly recharging bandwidth model.  Most users aren't constantly interacting with the platform, aside from the spam bots.  It doesn't make sense to have bandwidth that is constantly recharging every few minutes, as this makes life very easy for the spam bots and very hard for the typical user.

I'd rather have less bandwidth allocated to me overall, but allocated on a daily basis rather than on an ongoing basis.  Most of the time my bandwidth sits at 100%, unused.  Once or twice per day when I log in, it drops to zero because I'm interacting with the platform.  This is silly.  Spam bots with less SP are interacting with the platform 500% more than me, but because I don't log in constantly throughout the day whenever my bandwidth maxes out, I'm the one that ends up losing out on bandwidth because of their activities.

We could also look at capping bandwidth on accounts,  somewhere around 10-20mb.  Haejin has 1.87gb of bandwidth, you have 223mb.  The odds of either of you actually using all of your bandwidth are unfathomably low, and if you did it would likely be a sign of a massive abuse of the platform.

PS - I was stuck waiting over 2 hours to click the "Post" button on this comment because my bandwidth had dipped below 0 after making 1 upvote and 1 comment earlier this morning.
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff · (edited)
The bandwidth allocation is dynamic. During times when the network is busy, users have less. When the network is less busy, everyone’s limits are higher.

Also, your usage is measured across a week, not one day or a short burst of time.

As far as users with a lot of SP not using it all, that is kind of how it is used today. It assumes that the majority of users are not actively using their bandwidth.

The way it is setup and why is explained in the bluepaper.
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@whatamidoing ·
I ran into this problem last night.  I have nearly 1000 sp but then again, I Steem like a maniac...  I hope it clears up soon.
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@womby ·
welcome back  timcliff :)

I really liked the Post really great thank you
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@yaniecyag ·
This somehow helps people understand that everything in this platform has limitation,. Now I get it.
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@zamzamiali ·
$0.15
This is an article that has a lot of information and is very useful especially for beginner stemian. I want to ask, can I do translate and make this post into Indonesian language @timcliff?
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)
@timcliff ·
Yes :)
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@zamzamiali ·
$0.15
Thank u so much @timcliff. Have a nice day. Always success for u. Regards...
πŸ‘  
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vote details (1)