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Update on Simplicity: Cutting Complexity with Steem 0.17.0 by steemitblog

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· @steemitblog · (edited)
Update on Simplicity: Cutting Complexity with Steem 0.17.0
# Update on Steem 0.17.0, a.k.a. Simplicity

Great news everyone,

We are getting close to the release of Simplicity and this post clarifies some of the updates to the proposed changes originally released back in January (which can be found [here](https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/steem-0-17-change-proposal-introduction)). Here’s some of the killer updates we’re bringing to the next upgrade proposal:

* Permanent editing of posts
* Standardized payouts on a 7 day timer
* Removing the comment nesting limits
* Removing the payout penalty for posting ‘too much’ per day

Steem is about making amazing content how you want and getting rewarded for it. So we’re removing things that get in the way of that. That’s what this update is about.

These updates are critical to the next phase of Steem’s evolution, which you’ll be hearing more about soon.

# Yo Dawg, We Heard You Like Changes
<a href="https://imgflip.com/i/1lc0u0"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/1lc0u0.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

## Changes to Reward Curves: Not Yet

We considered proposing a move from the n^2 curve (to either modified superlinear n or a linear n), which would mean more influence on rewards for smaller holders of Steem Power than is the case today. A modification could be good, but there are game theoretic challenges that haven’t been fully modeled. Because of this, we’re postponing these changes.

Rest assured, we’ve completed the implementation. We just need to see how it functions. If it performs better than the current model, we may include it in the 0.18.0 release.

These changes are about rewarding the best content, so we’re handling any voting curve changes with care.

## Comment Curation Rewards To Remain

Earlier we proposed cutting curation rewards for comment votes. This was to encourage altruistic voting on comments and reduce the incentive to pile votes on an existing popular comment for personal gain (in the form of curation rewards). It would also incentivize curation bots to vote on posts, instead of comments. 

But in the spirit of simplicity, we want rules to be consistent across both reward funds. Minor theoretical issues don’t warrant more complexity and inconsistency. That’s why comment voting rewards (for both authorship and curation) will function the same as posts. 

(This also means that when the reward curves are updated post-0.17.0, you can expect comment rewards and post rewards to use identical curves.)

# Learn More on Github

Want to learn more about the 0.17.0 release? You can find more about them at the [Steem GitHub Repository](https://github.com/steemit/steem/releases/tag/v0.17.0rc2). (edit to clarify timing* A final release candidate is probably coming this week and a hardfork date will be set for one week after that.)

And remember to vote for the Witnesses who upgrade to the changes **YOU want to see!** Steem’s evolution depends on your votes!

NEXT: The New Steem Development Process
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vote details (241)
@abit · (edited)
$0.61
I disagree with these:
* Standardized payouts on a 7 day timer
* Comment reward pool

Neutral
* keep n^2 for longer time

Others are OK.

//Edit: The point is to bring author reward beneficiaries and SP delegation this time. If it's too hard to decide a curve, we can keep it unchanged for a while.
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vote details (6)
@liondani ·
$0.22
Instead of the 7 day timer they could just change the
24h+30days  >>>>>   24h+7days

and my opinion is the author:curator reward ratio should **reverse**...
The curators should take the most rewards since the curators are hundreds (or potentially thousands in future) but the author of a post still only one (authors will continue to take the lion share)
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vote details (43)
@ats-david ·
$0.38
>Instead of the 7 day timer they could just change the
24h+30days >>>>> 24h+7days

Seems like the best option to me. And for long-term revenue to authors, then can simply add a tipping function/option to posts. It would make tipping more intuitive, at the very least.
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vote details (3)
@beanz ·
Content is king.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@dan-atstarlite · (edited)
Yeah, I think people are really going to miss the 24 hour payout. People really want instant gratification. Especially new users who think the platform is too good to be true. 

"SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!" says the new user.

Now it will take 7 days to prove to them that Steemit's not a scam, LOL instead of 24 hours. I hope they remember to login a week later to check.

I remember waiting on the edge of my seat for my very first payout to see whether this was actually real or not. 

But I'm all for experimenting so I haven't really voiced this opinion too loudly and I assume there's a good reason for getting rid of it... I just haven't heard it yet.
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@jrcornel ·
$0.11
While not in favor of that much of split I do think curation rewards need to be higher... 75/25 is not nearly enough to make curation really worthwhile for most people or to really encourage many people to vote. Especially since early voters forgo some of that curation which makes the actual curation split somewhere in the low teens... 

An author/curator split of something like 60/40 seems like it could work. It might still not be enough but it would be better. Some say that curation is not needed while I feel that curation is a great incentivisor to get the most people to vote... 

Good points by the way about the curators being hundreds/thousands of people vs. a single author... hadn't thought about it like that before.
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vote details (1)
@sigmajin ·
>24h+30days >>>>> 24h+7days

Wasnt it already that way at one point...?
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@liondani ·
>Neutral
    keep n^2 for longer time


why keep n^2 longer when the majority don't want it?
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@abit ·
$0.32
Change one thing at one time.
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vote details (6)
@sigmajin · (edited)
>keep n^2 for longer time

How much longer?  IMO part and parcel of keeping it for a longer time is the very strong possibility/likelihood  that it falls through the cracks entirely.
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vote details (2)
@abit ·
The point is to bring reward beneficiaries and SP delegation this time. If it's too hard to decide a curve, we can keep it unchanged for a while.
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vote details (4)
@ats-david ·
$0.18
>Update on Simplicity: Cutting Complexity with Steem 0.17.0

Adding another rewards pool isn't "cutting complexity" - especially when the pool still pays people for posts, even if the posts are child posts instead of parent posts. 

I would *love* more simplicity for the platform mechanics/functionality as a user, as I think most people do. Still waiting for that...
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vote details (34)
@beanz · (edited)
>And remember to vote for the Witnesses who upgrade to the changes YOU want to see! Steem’s evolution depends on your votes!

- On a recent @votu podcast episode which featured the witnesses and their views on the hardfork, we wondered...  How exactly are we supposed to support the witnesses who will be voting the way we would like them to, without harassing them to find out how they will be voting (for or against the changes), and furthermore, how are these witnesses who want to represent the community, supposed to know what their supporters want them to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-myMvi3pi8&t

- If you really want to get to know the witnesses let us introduce you to @fyrstdragon, @dogefunk, and others.  @dan there's a special request in here for you, (you missed your chance @ned)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Rq84SBpHI

Also I approve of all changes though I would prefer to see comment curation rewards go to the commenters, and think this would be simpler despite it being different from posts.  It's already quite clear they work differently since the same curation incentives naturally aren't there.

### Lets talk about it over donuts!
![sig2.PNG](https://steemitimages.com/DQmdspEBpGw8VWYjWza5sVu13PH2TLn3yQBxXNRQPf9XL3Y/sig2.PNG)
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vote details (1)
@snowflake · (edited)
Answer to this comment 

>More SP = More say.It's an interesting experiment but lets not pretend the top tier trickles all the way down. Whoever is next in line becomes the most powerful and who is to say they are better voters or deserve the power more. The vote abstinance never gave "the majority" more say.


>lets not pretend the top tier trickles all the way down.

It does actually, everyone has reported having more influence in the last 12 hours, even minnows with very little SP.

>Whoever is next in line becomes the most powerful and who is to say they are better voters or deserve the power more

There are more dolphins than whales so the power is spread out among a lot more users. It's not about being a better voters it's about giving steem power utility, currently 99% of users don't understand the purpose of steem power because it doesn't give them any influence and so they are not buying more of it and many are cashing out early because of this. 

>The vote abstinance never gave "the majority" more say.

It is giving the majority more say as we speak and would be even more obvious if the curve was removed.
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vote details (3)
@beanz ·
I'm a minnow and I can tell you, I did not have more power, though I considered powering up as I know as a dolphin I would have had.  True the power is more spread out and that made it an interesting experiment.  However, the rules weren't set, no post to say what threshold was considered "a collusive whale vote", guild votes or sock puppet voters were not taken into account, and when it came to negating the vote of one whale with 5 collusive whale accounts on the post the rules were bent and @abit went ahead and *asked* if it was ok to downvote.

The same rules did not apply to everyone.  The experiment was a failure because the perameters were not disclosed or even standards set.  The negated votes were completely random and some automated.  I will still be interested in seeing what @abit learned from it, but it was never an experiment to be taken seriously when the post that explained it was something like 2 sentences long.  Clearly, there wasn't enough thought put into it.
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@biophil ·
> there are game theoretic challenges that haven’t been fully modeled.

I live and breathe game theoretic challenges. What concerns you? How can I help?
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@sigmajin ·
>I live and breathe game theoretic challenges. What concerns you? How can I help?

no answer to this one yet, huh

https://media.giphy.com/media/12uELgRJSkr8ac/giphy.gif
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@biophil ·
Yeah, for whatever reason, they've never seemed that interested in my help on game theory stuff.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@sneak ·
There are a number of angles.  The incentive to consolidate SP into your identity account versus spreading it across n equal-powered accounts, in theory, makes it easier to audit because fewer total number of votes need to be reviewed.  We want to run a simulation based on voting behavior on the site using historical data to see what the payout delta would have been on various posts over the last few months, things like that.

Want to mock some stuff up?  Hit me up at sneak@steemit.com.
👍  
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@biophil ·
I think @clayop has done some of that work already: https://steemit.com/steem/@clayop/making-steemit-better-a-proposal-to-flatten-the-rewards-curve

From what I can tell, the plots down at the bottom of that post were simulated with real data on various reward curves. Is that the sort of thing you're looking for?
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@blysards ·
Je suis impatient de voir la nouvelle interface de Steemit cette année. :)
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@bnoise ·
>We considered proposing a move from the n^2 curve [...]
>A modification could be good, but there are game theoretic challenges that haven’t been fully modeled.

Wow, it must be very complicated. How about this challenge: people having *double* your steem power now have  *four times* your voting power, and this will be still true after fork. Correct?

I would like linear curve or, even better, logaritmic. Not quadratic for sure.
👍  ,
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@sneak ·
We'll be releasing the proposal for 0.18.0 for the community to mold very soon, probably next week.  I think we're starting from a "let's go linear" position.
👍  
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@bnoise ·
Nice to hear this!
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@bola ·
Will update. My witness node has not been able to get a block in a month. Maybe this update will get me one.
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@clayop ·
$5.76
> Changes to Reward Curves: Not Yet

I am disappointed by this bad news. Here's why.

> We considered proposing a move from the n^2 curve (to either modified superlinear n or a linear n), which would mean more influence on rewards for smaller holders of Steem Power than is the case today.

The way you recognize the new curve is inadequate. It's not about increasing small holder's power, but about give fair influence proportional to all holder's stake. Concentration on concentration is a big social problem in Steem IMO.

> A modification could be good, but there are game theoretic challenges that haven’t been fully modeled.

Please stop using game scheme, unless you want to create gambling site. Creativity and positiveness come from encouraging and fair social base, not from win-or-lose arena.

> Rest assured, we’ve completed the implementation. We just need to see how it functions. If it performs better than the current model, we may include it in the 0.18.0 release.

You cannot know how it exactly works until you implement it. Different rule makes different behaviors and outcomes.

> These changes are about rewarding the best content, so we’re handling any voting curve changes with care.

`n^2` has no relationship of rewarding best contents. It's all about concentration of power on few whales. And it's obvious that the current system are generating many serious problems now.

What Ned told me is that `n` will encourage self-vote abuse and hence decreases amount of reward to other authors. But this is not a fatal problem, and can be addressed with community efforts IMO. We are already not rewarding "best contents" and many people are looking forward to a flattened curve. I hope that we have the new linear curve ASAP.
👍  , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
👎  ,
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@deanliu ·
basically I support a flatter reward curve. however, an idea occurs to me: if some want linear (n^1) and some want or want to keep longer n^2, is it possible to fork it like n^**a** and 1<**a**<2? **a** can be decided like feed prices determined by witnesses. 

I know this doesn't make things simpler. Just a thought and welcome any criticism.
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@baah ·
It could be possible as I understand it as long as it's on the same blockchain, but that would mean new accounts and how would that translate to transferring steem from one version to another as they run in tandem and one can move their steem to the more profitable flatter reward curve if they are a minnow and the whales will see no value in doing that effectively fracturing the community.
👍  
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@clayop ·
1.x is technically not desirable as far as I am heard.
👍  
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@dennygalindo ·
The curve is the biggest reason steem has failed to capitalize on the July august sign ups..
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@dragon40 ·
$0.02
Actually, what seems to be happening now is that whales are doing their damnedest to drive new users from the system. It's disgusting.
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@snowflake ·
$0.12
New users do not get autovoted by whales so they are not impacted by this. 
Actually they are benefiting since more users have influence in the platform so they are more likely to get rewards for their posts.

The people whining about this experiment are a minority of people that gets autovoted by whales and think of steemit as their main job.  Most of them are shortsighted and are not interested in growing the value of the platform as a whole.
👍  , , , , ,
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@dwinblood ·
>Please stop using game scheme,

They are referring to Game Theory.    It is not about playing games or gambling.   It is a study of how as you create rules there are ways to use them exploit(*aka game*) them etc.    This is why they use the term GAME.  It is more about studying systems and rules and how people using those rules can do things.   It is intentionally trying to think of ways to exploit or take advantage of those rules and if possible try to find a way to eliminate or at least have a way to counteract the exploits.

It's not perfect.   Yet when they use the term that is WHAT they are talking about, and why they use it.   It has nothing to do with playing games, gambling, etc though all of those things ALSO are subject to game theory.

In a way LIFE itself is subject to game theory.

So when you see that word in the future hopefully that helps you know why it is used.   It is a very suitable word and is a very accurate word as long as you know what they are talking about.   If you don't then it likely is pretty confusing.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory
👍  , , , ,
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vote details (5)
@clayop ·
I knew they are using the term game theory to make people cooperate. It requires people to expect other peoples bevaviors and decide based on the estimation.
But is it really good for contents system? I don't think so. The game theory enforces people to choose posts strategically and somewhat discouraging them to freely choose what they really like.
👍  
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vote details (1)
@snowflake · (edited)
@dwinblood

You are correct about game theory. The thing is that no one really explained how n^2 prevents people from gaming the system. Apparently this curve was meant to discourage self voting so the assumption is that self voting is a problem. Here I explained briefly why self voting is not a problem https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/reward-curve-doesn-t-discourage-self-voting

Self voting is like trolling, someone who were to do it repeatedly and excessively would get downvoted, put on the cheetah list and lose reputation in the process. 
Also anyone who actually chose to upvote themselves will earn very little curation rewards as they would be wasting their power on post/comments with no community support.

Like I already said, the curve is similar to government banning encryption because a few terrorists used it to commit their crime. You basically penalize everyone because a few bad apples. ( which I havn't even seen yet on steemit) 
Self voting should be dealt with downvotes not some curve that maximize the effect of stake disparity and remove the incentives for minnows/dolphins to buy steem power.
👍  , , ,
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vote details (4)
@justinashby ·
"*Hmm...* that's a **grounded** view of things, for you see, without the *ground* one could not tell where the *sky* begins." **- Justin Harvey John Ashby**
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@sneak ·
We still intend to do so. It's coming.
👍  
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@clayop ·
$0.69
IMO, the "We" should be this community together, not only the devs.
👍  , , ,
👎  
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@demotruk ·
Is the trigger date still tomorrow..?
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@proskynneo · (edited)
$0.14
We will be proposing a hardfork date when the release is finalized.
👍  , , , ,
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@theghost1980 ·
hello @proskynneo I would like to translate to Spanish the explanation of the upcoming hard fork, specifically this info: https://github.com/steemit/steem/releases Could I do that? and post it in my account, so The Spanish community can get that info too? One of the things I like to do is offer real value to the community. As a Spanish speaker, this is what I do from time to time in my account. So if you give me the permission I will start right away with this info. Thanks for your time and also, the good work!
PS: I was trying to find another way to get in touch with you, I tried steemit.chat and also your GitHub profile, but the only info was your steemit profile
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@freebornangel ·
Why is corporate's 'best content' better than my 'best content', or whales for that matter?
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@jamesbrown ·
$0.84
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@joele · (edited)
$0.04
I think we should have a minimum requirement of SP to earn rewards, so it's more concentrated with higher rewards and with reason to buy and stock more Steem.
👍  ,
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@virtualgrowth ·
>minimum requirement of SP to earn rewards

While I may try to understand the reason for this.  I struggle as to why one would have to have SP to earn rewards.  That would not be fair.  Reason to buy more STEEM is to have influence.  That is a choice.  Believe anyone should have the equal opportunity to earn even new users with minimal amounts of STEEM.
👍  ,
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@jrcornel ·
$0.19
Does a separate reward pool for comments make things more simple or is there another reason to have one? I guess I still wasn't sold on exactly why we need one...
👍  ,
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@craig-grant ·
$1.07
it's needed for steemit inc. to put comments on other web sites, like what discuss does, this is a great marketing tool for the steem blockchain
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@jrcornel ·
$0.19
I was wondering if that was the purpose but have never directly heard as much... Here's to hoping that is the case! Thanks for the response.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@snowflake ·
Websites owners are only going to integrate steem if it benefits their existing userbase. Unfortunately most websites's cutomers will never spend 10k usd to be able to reward a couple cent to other comments.
If steemit inc was looking for this type of integration they would have flatten the reward curve or just removed entirely. I am yet to hear a valid reason to keep it and self voting is not it.
👍  ,
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@ned ·
$0.43
The comment pool makes discussion and comment rewards more simple to achieve.  It is proposed to lower the barrier to entry for a new user's a-ha(!) moment and to stir discussion.
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vote details (15)
@ats-david ·
$0.37
Wouldn't the simpler solution be to adjust rewards curves and treat all posts (parent and child) the same? In any case, the fact that another pool is being created doesn't "cut complexity." It increases it.
👍  
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@jrcornel ·
$0.11
A-ha(!) ;)
👍  
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@virtualgrowth ·
Think smaller SP holders need to be able to add value by curation comments of other smaller SP Holders possibly.  Why not show rewards in STEEM instead of $? Then $0.22 would be 2.528 STEEM and 0.001 STEEM curation reward from a smaller user would be possible by a 100X smaller SP holder.  Then that smaller holder would see their reward worth 0.001+ STEEM as opposed to $0.00 and feel like they are actually adding value that they could see.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@tibonova ·
$0.58
I think it's not good that this comment is competing with posts in which authors shares a part of their book. Why one should comment with this huge handicap? Therefore I agree with the separation. I want that my comment compete with other comments. 
👍  , , , , ,
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@jrcornel ·
Good point!
👍  ,
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@mars-eve ·
Why is the Payout denied?
noob question....
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@tibonova · (edited)
The daily reward pool is a fixed amount, and Steemit, inc. doesn't want to take money out of that amount. With this option, other authors will get a bit more.
👍  , ,
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vote details (3)
@meesterboom ·
Looking forward to it! 

And oh man oh man I am really looking forward to the removal of that pesky nesting limit! Better strap in for some almighty comment discourse!! Weeee!!
👍  , , ,
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@mrfoot ·
<h2>Yo Dawg</h2>http://i.imgur.com/gi8aJ5n.jpg
👍  
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@robertdurst10 ·
Exciting stuff! While this clearly will not be any sort of final or close to final update, I believe we are moving in the right direction!
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@sigmajin · (edited)
$0.61
This post is nonsense.

The changes being made do not make the system simpler, they make it more complicated.  

They also make it far less transparent.

Steemit inc abused its users' trust when they decided to collude secretly with steemguild to use the reward pool to fund individuals casting massive self-upvotes.

And literally everything proposed here would make such an ill-advised endeavor easier to conceal or more lucrative.  All the while making unconvincing excuses about why that won't give up their super-exponential advantage in distributing the reward pool.

I get that many top witnesses are hesitant to vote against a proposed hardfork, but i urge all of them to carefully consider the negative reprecussions of this one before agreeing to it.

Rather than another pork-filled gong show, say no to this and tell INC that you want a more linear reward curve before anything else changes.
👍  , , , , , , , , ,
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@clayop ·
$0.37
Can you make a post asking each witness's stance and collaborative community movement?
👍  
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@sigmajin ·
yeah, ive been waiting for the 'official' announcement on steemit... i am writing a post now... how many of the top 19 need to agree... is it 10/19?
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@haphazard-hstead ·
Yep, Steemit Inc. should have just set the Steemguild folks up as contractors if they expected wage-level compensation. There's such a chain of consequences from that choice of how to compensate SteemGuild curators. Social platforms can sure change in a hurry!
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@pitterpatter ·
Steemit inc abused its users' trust when they decided to collude secretly with steemguild to use the reward pool to fund individuals casting massive self-upvotes.

"And literally everything proposed here would make such an ill-advised endeavor easier to conceal or more lucrative. All the while making unconvincing excuses about why that won't give up their super-exponential advantage in distributing the reward pool."
As a minnow going through the few whales downvoting and controling Steemit community I find this depressing and wonder why more steemians are not talking about this. If this continues for minnows/creatives you will lose the good content. Please, talk more about this.
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@sigmajin ·
>As a minnow going through the few whales downvoting and controling Steemit community

To be perfectly honest, i think the 'expirement' was an OK idea.  It could have been executed and explained much better, IMO, but i think the idea behind it came from the desire to improve the user experience.   @abit (who iiuc came up with the idea) has done a lot with voting to try to improve users experience (including going out of his way to upvote comments when almost no one else does).

Its relatively easy to shit on people like abit and smooth when they try to do something good and it has some negative consequences....   but you have to keep in mind that the net effect of their efforts is to make every users vote _worth more_.... I don't necessarily think its the answer, but i think its a good step to figuring one out.

At the end of the day, theyre trying to clean up the mess steemit inc made and refuses to take responsibility for.
👍  , , , ,
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@snowflake ·
>As a minnow going through the few whales downvoting and controling Steemit community

You got it backward. They are not controlling anything, they are giving community control back.
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@snowflake ·
>All the while making unconvincing excuses about why that won't give up their super-exponential advantage in distributing the reward pool.

hear,hear!
👍  
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vote details (1)
@baah ·
Yes, I missed this post and was under the impression that this was set in stone more or less.
@sneak I think you should revisit this important issues asap, granted Dan has left there is no reason to remove that from the proposed changes, and @ned like sigmajin has said before and as any developer knows or anybody that has basic understanding of programing, changing code isn't excused by money. Ctrl+F god damnit.
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@sigmajin ·
>hear,hear!

For the record, snowflake and i have both written quite a bit about the platform, voting and changes we would like to see... and i think this is like the one thing we agree on.
👍  
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@smooth ·
A downvote was applied to partially counter earlier whale votes as an experiment to reduce whale domination of voting influence. Not intended to express an opinion on the content nor result in a net reduction of rewards or reputation (automated notice)
👎  ,
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@neoxian ·
$0.15
This post refused payment.
👍  , , ,
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@inertia ·
$0.13
![](http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d2/d29d19fab366fbaeca8b551df2d99a0b4174233b05760344dddb4fa513e98b25.jpg)
👍  ,
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@whatsup ·
lol - pretty sure it is an automated response.
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@sneak ·
![IMG_2389.JPG](https://steemitimages.com/DQmZMqgWws5qciDCqGyxbmFeDHpzkuAydsgmscf4fQV2Wtp/IMG_2389.JPG)
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@teamsteem ·
All in all I love what you guys are accomplishing.
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@tibonova · (edited)
> reduce the incentive to pile votes on an existing popular comment for personal gain

& solving many other problems

---

![kill the curation rewards](http://www.steemimg.com/images/2017/03/13/curation-meme693cc.png)
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vote details (3)
@smooth ·
$0.10
This so-called incentive doesn't actually exist. You get curation rewards by voting before others, not after, and currently this is extremely front-loaded where later voters get little or nothing. Even in a flatter system where earlier curators don't take so much of the pie, seeing a lot of people already voted does not mean that a lot more will vote and that you will get a larger curation reward than just voting on something else like a new comment (unless you see this surge in voting early, in which case your vote is valid curation, predicting that the post will gain in popularity). The stated theory motivating the idea is wrong, though in theory the idea could still be correct for other reasons.
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👎  
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vote details (9)
@tibonova ·
$0.09
You are right, I just seek the opportunity in everything to kill the curation rewards. It seemed a good idea when I've first hear about it, but I don't think that anymore. 

And before another greedy jerk would downvote me, I'm not talking about taking away that rewards. Actually, I would give all of them to the investors as a fair share based on their Vests. The fact that an investor have to vote to get interests is a joke (IMO). The only way to do is running bots, subscribing trails, and so on. What should I, or other users do? Subscribing to trails to give our votes to contents that we have never seen, never read? Because that would be the right decision economically.

And again, I have no problem with trails, bots, etc. But when it is for profit, people forget what _**they** really_ like. And fake trends born...

---
![doge votes](http://www.steemimg.com/images/2017/03/14/doge-votes050bd.png)
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vote details (6)
@tibonova · (edited)
You downvote my comments because you don't agree with me. OK, as I used to say, you can use your voting power as you see fit. I use Busy anyway, so [my hidden comment on Steemit](https://steemit.com/simplicity/@steemitblog/update-on-simplicity-cutting-complexity-with-steem-0-17-0#@tibonova/re-jrcornel-re-liondani-re-abit-re-steemitblog-update-on-simplicity-cutting-complexity-with-steem-0-17-0-20170313t220758053z) is not hidden on [Busy](https://busy.org/simplicity/@steemitblog/update-on-simplicity-cutting-complexity-with-steem-0-17-0#@tibonova/re-jrcornel-re-liondani-re-abit-re-steemitblog-update-on-simplicity-cutting-complexity-with-steem-0-17-0-20170313t220758053z).

I have other things to do than always monitoring who downvotes my comments to the death at Steemit, and since my suggestion to the autoupvote our own comments was "a non-solution to a non-problem", I'll set it up by a 3rd party or by hand. Thanks for reminding me to that! 

I'm saying again, use your voting power as you wish, I'll do the same. Peace!
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vote details (2)
@virtualgrowth ·
$0.35
Was hoping reward would lessen the n^2 curve that favors the rich.

>fair influence proportional to all holder's stake ~ clayop Agreed!

Small Steem Power curators need value from curating to incentivize them to curate more.  There is incentive to post.  But we need more readers and curators to grow and these users should be rewarded.  Shouldn't they?

`24h+30days >>>>> 24h+7days` ~ liondani AND `tipping function/option to posts` ~ ats-david

Being used to the 24 hour payout and how 30 days doesn't seem to make much difference I believe the 7 day payout would make more sense currently.  Adding a tip  function would allow for rewarding STEEM aferwards if chosen to do so and has been brought up many times in the community.

`author:curator reward ratio should reverse.` ~ liondani

Agree with a larger amount for curators.  Plus part of this goes to the authors which will help smooth things out further.
👍  ,
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vote details (2)
@baah ·
Not necessarily incentive to curate as much as incentive to allocate more of the reward pool.
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@virtualgrowth ·
Yes.
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